Likes and dislike about VIII

[Austin Al]

likes= i liked the story. the people in it. and the way they act in the game.
dislikes= none really but it made me mad how Squall try out in the end of the game....

[Zeromus_X]

Likes= Incredibly surreal story and atmosphere near end of the game
Dislike= Way too flexible customization system.

[Squall Lionheart]

I think that evreyone is exaggerating about the capabilties of the junction system...
The monsters level up as well as you do so you can never be too strong in that way no matter how good you are...as for using the monsters' weakness it's called strategy....

[Arkacia]

Likes, that a new member started an interesting thread.

Dislikes, that new member posted it in the wrong place :p.

Moved to the FF8 forum :).

[Zeromus_X]

I think that evreyone is exaggerating about the capabilties of the junction system...
The monsters level up as well as you do so you can never be too strong in that way no matter how good you are...as for using the monsters' weakness it's called strategy....
You can get third-tier magic spells before even going on the first Ifrit mission, so it's a very flexible system. It requires little work to become almighty, and keeping your characters at a low level while using the Junction System to raise stats makes it one of the easiest FFs. True, not everyone will know how to use the system to their advantage the first time around, but with a little patience, it isn't that hard at all.

[Squall Lionheart]

To obtain high level magics you must train considerably very hard to obtain a very high level which will consume much time so it's useless...some monsters don't level up as you do but usually in any random battles monsters are always ahead of you...
As for raising your stats, that can't happen unless you get high level magics which can't be drawn from monsters until you both are of a high level, depending on draw points would be useless as well...
Eventually the junction system won't be as much help as before...

[Avathar]

xD I just posted this in another thread. :p Ahwell:

Hm...things i dislike about Final Fantasy VIII:

- The Junction System was complicated for in the beginning of the game.
- In general, one of the more difficult FF-games.
- A slow advancing story-line.
- To science-fiction-like.

Things i like about it:

- Deep characters.
- Nice graphics and movie-sequences.
- A great story.
- Laguna. ^^

[Austin Al]

oppps.. is this in the wroung place.... oh well. u guys found it lol.... i don't know how this works... so . yeah..... sorry Ark. but it did not matter to me at the time.... because nobody was talking about the game, just the people in it lol.... and cheats and stuff and that was just no fun............................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...............................





Do any of u guys Play Diablo 2?

[Squall Lionheart]

.......

Try to stay on topic or just go to another thread...

[Zeromus_X]

To get high level magics, all you need to do is get the refining abilities and keep stocking enough magics to make them, before monsters carry them, at least. Like I said, not many people have the patience, but it's just not right that all the highest level spells are actually within reach right at the beginning of the game. (And let's not talk about Lionheart ><; )

The fact that leveling is only useful for obtaining items dropped by monsters at high enough levels is also disappointing, and that there are 'power-leveling' monsters really kicks it while its down. (Especially the latter, this seems to be common in alot of RPGs.)

But really, that's the only blaringly obvious fault I can see. I really don't understand why people complain about the story, as slow as it is at the beginning.

[ShadowHeart]

Squall, you can also get magic from item refining and fixed draw points (ICTH ;)). You can easily have full rounds of all the best magics at levels <10. Of course some, like Ultima, are not really attainable until disc 3 or something anyway.

And about the supposed difficulty.. it all depends. If you stay at low levels throughout the game until you have all GFs, and then power-level using stat-boosting abilities and then junction correctly you'll be as close to invincible as you can possibly be, only gravity-type damage and other defense-ignoring attacks can hurt you then. Griever's Shockwave Pulsar did <200 damage if I remember correctly. Staying on low levels in general will make the game a lot easier than it should be.

FF8 is one of the easiest FFs if you know what you're doing. If you're just playing like you would in any other FF, it will be one of the more difficult FFs. If you reach level 100 without properly understanding the junction system some level 100 monsters will literally slaughter you. The difference is insane. The possible one-hit killer Breath of a Ruby Dragon (I learnt that the hard way on my first time through, Ruby Dragons were a real challenge then) can be reduced to a laughable scratch. And if you're on low levels Ruby Dragons won't even use Breath at all.

[Vincent]

*cough* like: great story n that
dislike.... stuk in the beggining of the 4th disc, no where to go, cant beat the boss...

[Squall Lionheart]

I'm not saying it's impossible but it requires too much time that it's useless....

.... and many attacks aren't level related that would instantly kill you.

[Hydra]

True. It's just too time consuming that by the time you get it, you're already at a high enough level anyway. Either that, or just use a Gameshark. Or just stock. O.o I just dislike the characters. Well, some of them. :D

[richboywonder]

i never even played that.the only reason i came here because i thought it said FF7.

[ThroneofDravaris]

Likes:

Junctioning System (i r power gamer)

Enviroments

Graphics

Some of the aspects of the story (Time manipulatuion FTW)

The Weapononary System

The Cash System

Dislikes:

The details of the story (how they managed to make EVERYTHING so contrived is beyond me)

Vast majority of the character

The 4th Disk Clearly being Rushed (so wait, how did Seifer go from ‘I’m going to kill you all’ to ‘lol fishing’ again?)

[Avathar]

The 4th Disk Clearly being Rushed (so wait, how did Seifer go from ‘I’m going to kill you all’ to ‘lol fishing’ again?)

XD Exactly. That made Seifer even more my least favourite FFVIII character!

[Griever]

The 4th Disk Clearly being Rushed (so wait, how did Seifer go from ‘I’m going to kill you all’ to ‘lol fishing’ again?)

Well, he was brainwashed and under ultimecia's control..when he was in timber and made contact with edea for the first time form then on he was under her control. even after she was gone from seifer's world, he continued to do as she wanted. After ellone sent ultimecia further into the past in order to acheive time compression, it's not so hard to figure out that she no longer needed seifer to aid her. It's not really hard to figure out what happend, although most of us hate to assume (myself included) it would have most likely went offtrack trying to show you why that happend. On top of that, the 4th disc was mainly dedicated to the cinematic ending.

Oh, i nearly forgot...

Likes:
Graphics
Music
Story line
Junction system
Draw system
Weapons upgrading

Dislikes:
I really didn't dislike anything about this game, except one thing. I wish they would have went into something between laguna and squall, where squall finds out that his parents are laguna and raine. Other than this everything was nice about it in my opinion.

[ThroneofDravaris]

Well, he was brainwashed and under ultimecia's control..when he was in timber and made contact with edea for the first time form then on he was under her control. even after she was gone from seifer's world, he continued to do as she wanted. After ellone sent ultimecia further into the past in order to acheive time compression, it's not so hard to figure out that she no longer needed seifer to aid her. It's not really hard to figure out what happend, although most of us hate to assume (myself included) it would have most likely went offtrack trying to show you why that happend. On top of that, the 4th disc was mainly dedicated to the cinematic ending.
Obviously, Seifer returning to his previous lifestyle after the sorceress relinquished whatever influence she had over him is a fairly logical move. However, when the previous scene with see of a character is him menacing over the female lead while he feeds her to a power hungry sorceress and the next is him screwing around with his friends, it doesn’t exactly scream ‘continuity’. Even if it had been a few lines, the game really needed something to 'bridge the gap'.

[Griever]

And i agree with you, but as i said, the story creators probably thought it would be better to assume, than to get offtrack with the story just to cover that gap.

[Da Chink]

To get high level magics, all you need to do is get the refining abilities and keep stocking enough magics to make them, before monsters carry them, at least. Like I said, not many people have the patience, but it's just not right that all the highest level spells are actually within reach right at the beginning of the game. (And let's not talk about Lionheart ><; )

The fact that leveling is only useful for obtaining items dropped by monsters at high enough levels is also disappointing, and that there are 'power-leveling' monsters really kicks it while its down. (Especially the latter, this seems to be common in alot of RPGs.)

But really, that's the only blaringly obvious fault I can see. I really don't understand why people complain about the story, as slow as it is at the beginning.

Zomg! did know one use the card game to refine magic?! i was doing 5k dmg in 2 hours.
Likes
Music
Story
Junctioning system
Card Game
Zell XD

Dislikes
Only one Char that I Dislike and thats Laguna
story line (once they started talking about time compresion)
The Chocobos were whack in this one
Doom Train?! LAWL

[SephirogaUltimecia]

liked- Just about everything... especially the music
disliked- Marlboro, and excessively long cinematics... only 1 or two got me peturbed

[blukazoo159]

i like the versitility of the game!!!

[ChibiSelphie]

Even though FFVIII is my favorite. I don't like Rinoa
I love the music, characters except for the one above and the storyline

[Spirit]

i like everything about ffviii

[dappa]

I love everything about this game. My only gripe with this game is that you dont get money after every enemy you defeat.

[ultimecia]

i like the game but it lacks a bit in story line it would have been a better game if the producers of the game would include more action and i dont like the idea of having a number of times you can use your spells its a bit stupid more when you draw crap spells i think it should either had the ffVII materia or the FX sphere grid would help the game a lot but every game cant be perfect exept for ffvii its ashame they didnt have the best graphics then but i heard they are making a new ffVII remake with more storyline and better graphics its going to be the ultimate game ever made but ffVIII isnt a bad game at all they should make a remake of that too!

[Slider]

I can't really find ANYTHING to dislike.................

[ThroneofDravaris]

Not even the things that everyone else has listed and are more or less unanimously consider by even die-hard FFVIII fans to be legitimate flaws?

[Gumdrop]

Like - decent level of playablity, cactuar and tonberry summons and also the huge cactuar boss, Omega Weapon (took me a while to beat him first time), some of the music + takes a while to get everything done (as with all FFs).

Dislike - the story, the characters and the whole "draw" to get magic buisness becuase it was boring as hell, most the summons - especially Eden becuase it went on way too long + the annoying card game rules.

[Slider]

Not even the things that everyone else has listed and are more or less unanimously consider by even die-hard FFVIII fans to be legitimate flaws?
You brought it to yourself, let's see........

Your own dislikes: - Storyline : I already love it, yours is no more than personnal oppinion, it made it best to me to be united after destiny had seperated the characters in so many diffrent ways to many diffrent places and gardens how can you dislike that?
-Vasy Majority of characters: That's something you can hate???????? maybe if they were too much but they weren't and they weren't too small in number either giving you MORE options thaat's an advantage and I don't understand why you dislike it????
- Disc 4: I agree that Disc 4 didn't take time as much as the others but it was AWESOME (you can regret that like me but not hate it coz that indicates you wanted even MORE put in the game, it may sound unreasonnable but that's how I feel) also it included so many diffrent monsters if you think about it it probably had the BIGGEST variety of monsters and enemies
- Seifer : You're just mocking it, how about from mislead dream or brainwashed Seifer to the one who found piece of mind or the one regretting passing the age restriction of the SeeD exam and never becoming one?

Dachink:
- Laguna: Personnal oppinion, can't help him
- Storyline: Same.
- Chocobos: Yeah, it's true they didn't give too much significance to the chocobos this time but then again I never really cared
- DoomTrain: It's a Status changing GF Summon, his damage and abilities were good too!

SephirogaUltimecia:
-Malboro: Personnal oppinion, I know they're hard to beat but unlike some people I take it as a challenge more than hate it.

dappa:
Money: Welcome to reality, you can take a defeated enemie's Item (i.e. Malboro Tentacles, and so on) a mutated monster living in the outback doesn't walk around with a bag of gold. These are M-O-N-S-T-E-R-S not Leprechauns.

ultimecia:
Magic: Unlike materia the use of para-magic is more R-E-A-L-I-S-T-I-C as for the number limit ,at least it shows that anyone has a LIMIT of magic summoning, but like you I'm REAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYY looking forward for another part of the game.

heavens cloud:
Card Rules: Another personnal oppinion, I like the mind challenging varieties because otherwise it would've been a REEEAALL boring task to collect the card

Any other oppinions I left are either repeated or are just personnal oppinion with no explanations. Maybe I'm not the biggest fan, but I still don't dislike anthing about naturally! :)

[ThroneofDravaris]

Storyline : I already love it, yours is no more than personnal oppinion, it made it best to me to be united after destiny had seperated the characters in so many diffrent ways to many diffrent places and gardens how can you dislike that?
If it had been handled well it may have been tolerable but “we all grew up together and then just kinda forgot about it due to Deus Ex Machina plot point ‘A’” is not the making of a great story.

-Vasy Majority of characters: That's something you can hate???????? maybe if they were too much but they weren't and they weren't too small in number either giving you MORE options thaat's an advantage and I don't understand why you dislike it????
Most of the characters receive almost no character development, some of them to the point where they are more like ‘avatars’ then they are characters. Most of the characters have one characteristic to define them, with all their actions within the game being based on that one characteristic. Zell and Selphie fall into this category. Beyond the stereotypical achetype that they portray, there isn’t anything to them. Then there are characters like Quistis and Irvine who look like they are going to receive some decent development but then virtually fall into a role of unimportance after the first disk. This is particularly noticeable for Quistis, who the characters clearly initially intended to be a love interest for Squall to compete with Rinoa. After the first disk however, any mention of these feelings is completely void up until one of the last moments in the disk where she states the equivalent of “OH WAIT I WASN’T REALLY IN LOVE LOLZ”. Seriously, even the characters in FFV were better developed than those in FFVIII, and FFV is notorious for being considered as having some of the worst characters since they started to give FF PCs personalities.


- Disc 4: I agree that Disc 4 didn't take time as much as the others but it was AWESOME (you can regret that like me but not hate it coz that indicates you wanted even MORE put in the game, it may sound unreasonnable but that's how I feel) also it included so many diffrent monsters if you think about it it probably had the BIGGEST variety of monsters and enemies
The final dungeon was ‘nifty’ and all but that was practically all there was on the disk. This wouldn’t have been a problem if everything had been resolved up to that point but the game still left many questions behind. Seifer I’ll talk about below. Ultimecia is never given a clear motivation. Time Compression is explained so poorly that people speculate as to its mechanics to this day. No details are given as to what happened to Galbardia, or anything to do with the dubious political situation in general, after Seifer’s defeat. Squall’s relationship with Laguna is never explored to the level it should have considering it had been built up throughout the entire game. It’s as if they forgot about the rest of the plot points and just decided to focus on the showdown with Ultimecia and threw a whole load of bizarre visuals at us to try and make us forget that there was anything else to explain.

- Seifer : You're just mocking it, how about from mislead dream or brainwashed Seifer to the one who found piece of mind or the one regretting passing the age restriction of the SeeD exam and never becoming one?
I have nothing against Seifer. In fact, he’s one of the few characters I actually like in this game. What I was referring to was how he simply fades from the plot in disk 4 after trying to kill everyone, only to appear in the ending with a completely changed demeanor. Sure, it isn’t a great leap in logic to assume that Seifer would return the way he was after being defeated, but we are given no indication that Seifer was beginning to change at the time we last see him. In fact, where did he go? He just sort of throws Rinoa at Adel and runs off, never to be seen again until aforementioned final scene. This leaves a hole in the continuity of the game, a pretty inexcusable one since it wouldn’t have taken more than a few lines of dialogue to completely fill out the character.

[Gumdrop]

This is why these things are a bad idea, you often can't say something bad even when invited to without people getting upset.

If it had been handled well it may have been tolerable but “we all grew up together and then just kinda forgot about it due to Deus Ex Machina plot point ‘A’” is not the making of a great story.

That's the sort of thing I also hated about FF8s story.


Most of the characters receive almost no character development, some of them to the point where they are more like ‘avatars’ then they are characters. Most of the characters have one characteristic to define them, with all their actions within the game being based on that one characteristic. Zell and Selphie fall into this category. Beyond the stereotypical achetype that they portray, there isn’t anything to them. Then there are characters like Quistis and Irvine who look like they are going to receive some decent development but then virtually fall into a role of unimportance after the first disk. This is particularly noticeable for Quistis, who the characters clearly initially intended to be a love interest for Squall to compete with Rinoa. After the first disk however, any mention of these feelings is completely void up until one of the last moments in the disk where she states the equivalent of “OH WAIT I WASN’T REALLY IN LOVE LOLZ”. Seriously, even the characters in FFV were better developed than those in FFVIII, and FFV is notorious for being considered as having some of the worst characters since they started to give FF PCs personalities.

I very much agree. Nice that somebody else feels this way, people always seem to love the characters and story.

Disc 4 was okay, it could have been bigger but personaly I don't mind that much even if they probibly did do that just so they could say it spans four disks.

[Slider]

If it had been handled well it may have been tolerable but “we all grew up together and then just kinda forgot about it due to Deus Ex Machina plot point ‘A’” is not the making of a great story.

So you need a better reason than the GF....oh well that's your saying but remeber that they seperated while being very very young as well.


Most of the characters receive almost no character development, some of them to the point where they are more like ‘avatars’ then they are characters. Most of the characters have one characteristic to define them, with all their actions within the game being based on that one characteristic. Zell and Selphie fall into this category. Beyond the stereotypical achetype that they portray, there isn’t anything to them. Then there are characters like Quistis and Irvine who look like they are going to receive some decent development but then virtually fall into a role of unimportance after the first disk. This is particularly noticeable for Quistis, who the characters clearly initially intended to be a love interest for Squall to compete with Rinoa. After the first disk however, any mention of these feelings is completely void up until one of the last moments in the disk where she states the equivalent of “OH WAIT I WASN’T REALLY IN LOVE LOLZ”. Seriously, even the characters in FFV were better developed than those in FFVIII, and FFV is notorious for being considered as having some of the worst characters since they started to give FF PCs personalities.

Thankfully there weren't too much love twists or i might have HATED it for being a soap opera drama (one the things I hate most in life). As for the characters I don't think they're sterotypical espicially Squall who slowly and COMPLETELY changes throught the whole time. But I don't wanna discuss it and argue coz it will take a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNG time so in short you believe wht u want , n I'll do the same ;)

The final dungeon was ‘nifty’ and all but that was practically all there was on the disk. This wouldn’t have been a problem if everything had been resolved up to that point but the game still left many questions behind. Seifer I’ll talk about below. Ultimecia is never given a clear motivation. Time Compression is explained so poorly that people speculate as to its mechanics to this day. No details are given as to what happened to Galbardia, or anything to do with the dubious political situation in general, after Seifer’s defeat. Squall’s relationship with Laguna is never explored to the level it should have considering it had been built up throughout the entire game. It’s as if they forgot about the rest of the plot points and just decided to focus on the showdown with Ultimecia and threw a whole load of bizarre visuals at us to try and make us forget that there was anything else to explain.

Time Compression: Compressing the past with the coming future to form one eternal present, as for Ultimecia's final attempt to absorb Time and space that would've made her a Goddess who can create or get rid of any other existence than herself. but it's true that the final enemy was revealed very late unlike most of the other FFs in which you know your enemy since the begining. And it might've been cool too if they made Squall fight along Laguna Kiros and Ward (or just tied their fates in Disc 4 for awhile in any way) as REAL playable characters, but then again they were much older and haven't fought in so many years. So I'm guessing what you're saying (espicially about Disc 4)is that it was good but it could've been better, true? ;)

I have nothing against Seifer. In fact, he’s one of the few characters I actually like in this game. What I was referring to was how he simply fades from the plot in disk 4 after trying to kill everyone, only to appear in the ending with a completely changed demeanor. Sure, it isn’t a great leap in logic to assume that Seifer would return the way he was after being defeated, but we are given no indication that Seifer was beginning to change at the time we last see him. In fact, where did he go? He just sort of throws Rinoa at Adel and runs off, never to be seen again until aforementioned final scene. This leaves a hole in the continuity of the game, a pretty inexcusable one since it wouldn’t have taken more than a few lines of dialogue to completely fill out the character.

I agree there wasn't much explanation to what happened to Seifer in the end, but anyone would guess the hell going throught his mind by that time, I would've liked it also if Ultimicia had kept him as her knight (maybe she didn't when he was defeated several times or she thought she didn't need him anymore,but whatever) but you make a good point the only diffrence is that you dislike it and I don't at all!!! :)

[ThroneofDravaris]

So you need a better reason than the GF....oh well that's your saying but remeber that they seperated while being very very young as well.
They were 7-8. Most people can clearly remember that time in their lives, especially when it’s only ten years later.

Thankfully there weren't too much love twists or i might have HATED it for being a soap opera drama (one the things I hate most in life). As for the characters I don't think they're sterotypical espicially Squall who slowly and COMPLETELY changes throught the whole time.
This is why I said ‘vast majority of characters’ rather than ‘all’. Even so, Squall’s character development was dubious at best: He is pretty much the same person right up to the point where Rinoa fall into a coma, at which point he changes. Really though, Squall along with Rinoa and Laguna were still acceptable as characters. It was the way all of the supporting characters were glanced over that got to me.

Time Compression: Compressing the past with the coming future to form one eternal present, as for Ultimecia's final attempt to absorb Time and space that would've made her a Goddess who can create or get rid of any other existence than herself.
We know what time compression is. It’s how it works that is not only confusing but also nonsensical. For example, moments from the beginning of game such as the first mission in Dollet are seen as being compressed yet we don’t see any of Time Compression's effects until the beginning of Disk 4. Also, we are never given a reason as to why Ultimecia has to travel into the past in order to start it off.

but it's true that the final enemy was revealed very late unlike most of the other FFs in which you know your enemy since the begining.
No, in many FF games the true antagonist doesn’t appear until some point near the end of the game. FFI, FFIII, and FFIV all followed this pattern before FFVIII. The difference is that all of the villains in these games also had clear motivations for their actions. The only definite motivation that the game presents Ultimecia as having is that she’s evil.

And it might've been cool too if they made Squall fight along Laguna Kiros and Ward (or just tied their fates in Disc 4 for awhile in any way) as REAL playable characters, but then again they were much older and haven't fought in so many years.
Not really. The limited cast didn’t really bother me in the slightest.

So I'm guessing what you're saying (espicially about Disc 4)is that it was good but it could've been better, true?
No, I’m saying that Disk 4 would have been adequate if all of the game’s plot points other than the final battle had been resolved in Disk 3.

I agree there wasn't much explanation to what happened to Seifer in the end, but anyone would guess the hell going throught his mind by that time, I would've liked it also if Ultimicia had kept him as her knight (maybe she didn't when he was defeated several times or she thought she didn't need him anymore,but whatever) but you make a good point the only diffrence is that you dislike it and I don't at all!!!
Even if it doesn’t bother you, surely you must acknowledge that said plot point was poorly handled due to aforementioned continuity issues and is therefore a flaw.

[Slider]

They were 7-8. Most people can clearly remember that time in their lives, especially when it’s only ten years later.

I'm intrested to know your source that they were 7-8, they were five when garden was built, Zell was adopted, Quistis too but was returned, Selphie & Irvine were gone too, meaning Only Squall Seifer and Quistis stayed together until the others joined them.

We know what time compression is. It’s how it works that is not only confusing but also nonsensical. For example, moments from the beginning of game such as the first mission in Dollet are seen as being compressed yet we don’t see any of Time Compression's effects until the beginning of Disk 4. Also, we are never given a reason as to why Ultimecia has to travel into the past in order to start it off.

I read this many time and I still can't figure out what you mean by the effects of time compression in Dollet? why would therebe any effect if Ultimecia achieved Time Compression at Disk 4?????????????? please explain!

No, in many FF games the true antagonist doesn’t appear until some point near the end of the game. FFI, FFIII, and FFIV all followed this pattern before FFVIII. The difference is that all of the villains in these games also had clear motivations for their actions. The only definite motivation that the game presents Ultimecia as having is that she’s evil.

Dude, don't argue about that, it still leaves many others in which the antagonist appears early and even not all of the games you said showed the antagonist as late as VIII (althought you actually fought Ultimecia many times, she just was using Edea but her identity wasn't revealed)


Even if it doesn’t bother you, surely you must acknowledge that said plot point was poorly handled due to aforementioned continuity issues and is therefore a flaw.

Not necessarily a flaw, not all storylines (this includes movies, books etc...) have the usual order : beginning, middle, ending. For example some of them just start from the past and end with the present. In 8, it was the present with a LOT of flashbacks and its ending is the actually the beginning's explanation. but yeah it was a bit confusing, but not too much to HATE it!!!!!???

[ThroneofDravaris]

I'm intrested to know your source that they were 7-8, they were five when garden was built, Zell was adopted, Quistis too but was returned, Selphie & Irvine were gone too, meaning Only Squall Seifer and Quistis stayed together until the others joined them.
From what I gathered the events at the orphanage were from 10 years prior to the game. If I’m wrong I’ll retract that statement.

I read this many time and I still can't figure out what you mean by the effects of time compression in Dollet? why would therebe any effect if Ultimecia achieved Time Compression at Disk 4?????????????? please explain!
It’s simple. If the events around the Dollet mission were being compressed then the characters should have been able to see the effects while they were enacting said mission. The fact that we only see the effects of time compression at the start of Disk 4 simply does not make any sense.

Dude, don't argue about that, it still leaves many others in which the antagonist appears early and even not all of the games you said showed the antagonist as late as VIII (althought you actually fought Ultimecia many times, she just was using Edea but her identity wasn't revealed)
You’re missing the point of what I’m saying. I used those other antagonists as examples of successful villains that appear late in the game and yet were still filled out to a decent degree. The problem that I, and most other people, have with Ultimecia isn’t that she appeared late in the game, it’s that she didn’t have clear motivations for her actions.

And jftr, all the games I listed present the true antagonists as late, if not later than in FFVIII. Garlend appears in the beginning of FFI but the game gives no indication that he is the one manipulating the present until right before you fight him at the end of the game. The Cloud of Darkness doesn’t show up until the VERY end of the game in FFIII. Zemus isn’t mentioned until the characters visit the moon in FFIV.

Not necessarily a flaw, not all storylines (this includes movies, books etc...) have the usual order : beginning, middle, ending. For example some of them just start from the past and end with the present. In 8, it was the present with a LOT of flashbacks and its ending is the actually the beginning's explanation. but yeah it was a bit confusing, but not too much to HATE it!!!!!???
I’m not talking about the main plot. I am purely talking about Seifer. The manner in which the main plot is presented is irrelevant to the continuity error between his disposition at the end of Disk 3/beginning of Disk 4 and in the ending FMV. Also, I don’t hate said continuity error; that would be incredibly pointless. I do, however recognize it as a flaw in the story telling; one which could have easily be avoided.

[ultimecia]

i think that the weapons and battling is not very good as you need to find a load of items to upgrade your weapons and bit crappy spells

[Slider]

-Balamb was built "12" years ago making the maximum age of the characters adoptions 6 years (if they were 18)
-Becoming a God isn't a motivation? in any case it didn't have a lot of drama or stories and explanations that's what you're saying.....................................
-I still CAN'T see (or maybe I still don't understand) why isn't the least bit reasonnable for you the way Seifer turnned out at the end. He found peace of mind at last and his posse that nearly abandonned him returned again!!

[ThroneofDravaris]

-Balamb was built "12" years ago making the maximum age of the characters adoptions 6 years (if they were 18)
As I said, if I’m wrong about what I said I retract that statement.
-Becoming a God isn't a motivation?
No, that is her goal. A well-developed villain has decent reasoning behind their actions in order to make them realistic.
--I still CAN'T see (or maybe I still don't understand) why isn't the least bit reasonnable for you the way Seifer turnned out at the end. He found peace of mind at last and his posse that nearly abandonned him returned again!!
Once again you’re missed the point of what I said. I’m not saying his change wasn’t logical. I’m saying the fact that they don’t present the transition between when we see him in the Lunatic Pandora to when we see him fishing in the ending is sloppy story telling.

[Slider]

- I need to correct something you said before I explain my point of view, it's true that a villain needs a motivation but that's not to make it more realistic but just to enrich the plot with more turns and twists. For example not that Ultimicia's GOAL required any MOTIVATION (even I would do it!), becoming a God isn't usually what you turn down or needs much motivation (actually it would ruin the storyline: Imagine someone who wants to become a God for a CERTAIN reason, do you see where this is going?), but in any case from an outside view Ultimicia may SEEM unrelated in any way to the characters having her own goal and existing even in a diffrent time. But in an in depth look, she was THE BASIC REASON OF THE EXISTENCE OF GARDEN AND SEED (SeeD are even nammed that way for being seeds of the future that will defeat the sorceress, to remind you) so the villain character is A LOT more related to the characters than some might think.
So REGARDLESS of her motivation, I understand your point of view and I'm fine with that :)

- In which part did you expect Seifer to appear (to present his transition) again, do you think he would've EVER come back to Lunatic Pandora for ANY REASON- or at any time before Ultimicia was allowed to achieve Time Compression- He could've came back to help the characters, that way he fights along with Squall and rest his mind and revenge from Ultimicia's deciet/brainwash , but unfortunately his mind was in hell and he didn't come back which would've been TOO awakward to recover so quickly espcially after fighting his Garden friends and presenting Rinoa to Adel. Or should he have existed in Time Compression which would have been MOST unreasonnable and is self-explainatory. If you think about it, there was no place but the ending. So it wasn't sloppy story telling, more like perfection of the story (unless you had any other ideas).

[ThroneofDravaris]

I need to correct something you said before I explain my point of view, it's true that a villain needs a motivation but that's not to make it more realistic but just to enrich the plot with more turns and twists.
It’s more realistic in that motivations makes her more human, rather than an evil persona.

For example not that Ultimicia's GOAL required any MOTIVATION (even I would do it!), becoming a God isn't usually what you turn down or needs much motivation (actually it would ruin the storyline: Imagine someone who wants to become a God for a CERTAIN reason, do you see where this is going?)
Not good enough. You could say the same for villains like Kuja who desire to take over the world(s), yet Kuja’s motivations are explained clearly and the character itself has a significant backstory.

but in any case from an outside view Ultimicia may SEEM unrelated in any way to the characters having her own goal and existing even in a diffrent time. But in an in depth look, she was THE BASIC REASON OF THE EXISTENCE OF GARDEN AND SEED (SeeD are even nammed that way for being seeds of the future that will defeat the sorceress, to remind you) so the villain character is A LOT more related to the characters than some might think.
I never said Ultimecia was unrelated to the plot.

- In which part did you expect Seifer to appear (to present his transition) again, do you think he would've EVER come back to Lunatic Pandora for ANY REASON- or at any time before Ultimicia was allowed to achieve Time Compression- He could've came back to help the characters, that way he fights along with Squall and rest his mind and revenge from Ultimicia's deciet/brainwash , but unfortunately his mind was in hell and he didn't come back which would've been TOO awakward to recover so quickly espcially after fighting his Garden friends and presenting Rinoa to Adel. Or should he have existed in Time Compression which would have been MOST unreasonnable and is self-explainatory. If you think about it, there was no place but the ending. So it wasn't sloppy story telling, more like perfection of the story (unless you had any other ideas).
It would have taken all of 2 minutes, maybe less, to finish off Seifer’s story after Adel was defeated. There is no reason why they couldn’t have added a scene to at least give us the impression he was changing before Time Compression was to be activated.

[Slider]

-Not realistic!!!!!! Sorry but I don't think so, and you don't EVEN have to be evil if you seek infinite power!!!!!!!!! Even she was a controlling selfish type rather than taking joy in destroying humans she wished to exist by herself and be in control!!!
-WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN ?????? Time Compression happened almost as soon as Adel was defeated! I don't see in ANY way how that could've been possible

[ThroneofDravaris]

-Not realistic!!!!!! Sorry but I don't think so, and you don't EVEN have to be evil if you seek infinite power!!!!!!!!! Even she was a controlling selfish type rather than taking joy in destroying humans she wished to exist by herself and be in control!!!
This does nothing to refute my point that she was never given a motivation for her actions. In fact, that paragraph is almost pure conjecture: we aren’t given any background information on Ultimecia so it is impossibly to tell whether she was evil or just really selfish.
-WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN ?????? Time Compression happened almost as soon as Adel was defeated! I don't see in ANY way how that could've been possible
Time Compression did not immediately happen after Adel was defeated. Ellone initiates the process, there for they could have added the additional scene without effecting the plot. Even if it did though, there is no reason why they couldn’t have altered the scene entirely to incorporate extra dialogue.

[Slider]

- Actually it does, but I'm repeating myself, how much motivation do you need to become the most powerfull being with the ability to control existence???????? that's why you can overlook the motivation in that case or not give it too much importance if it wasn't clear enough .

-As for Seifer I'll have to ask you again, How? why? in What way? a short clip? in what way could they change the scene ENTIRELY? how important was that? how much significance would it add to his final appearance after it's all over? Why fade away from the main plot and the characters getting ready for SeeD's ultimate purpose for such a thing?

[ThroneofDravaris]

- Actually it does, but I'm repeating myself, how much motivation do you need to become the most powerfull being with the ability to control existence???????? that's why you can overlook the motivation in that case or not give it too much importance if it wasn't clear enough .
No, you can’t. A character that has no backstory and no real motivation is still a two dimensional character, no matter how obviously entertaining it would be to control all existence.

-As for Seifer I'll have to ask you again, How? why? in What way? a short clip? in what way could they change the scene ENTIRELY? how important was that? how much significance would it add to his final appearance after it's all over? Why fade away from the main plot and the characters getting ready for SeeD's ultimate purpose for such a thing?
I have already stated several times that only a very short scene would have been required to fill out Seifer’s character and forshadow his appearance in the ending. It doesn’t have to interfere with the Final Battle at all; straight after the battle with Adel would have been just fine. This is important in that it would mend the continuity error within Disk 4 and provide a plausible, logical ending to a pivotal character within the game.

[Slider]

TO END THIS, coz it's taken too long
Your rating of the importance of Ultimicia's motivation in FF8 is diffrent than mine same as for what happened to the nemesis Seifer alright?
If you are still willing to discuss it then let's pm before we drift Off-Topic

[ThroneofDravaris]

Clearly, this discussion is simply going to go around in circles due to said difference of opinion on the level of depth which should have been incorporated into the plot, so it is probably best if we do indeed end this here.

[dappa]

I think they should of added a scene where you can see how seifer got back to being a regular guy again.

[FantasyFanatic]

I think they should of added a scene where you can see how seifer got back to being a regular guy again.

you're right, we never really knew what happened to that guy to make him a decent person again.

I like the fact, like in most FF games, that Squall was far from perfect, you know? Finally games come along that people can actually relate to...in a way...Cloud was also a good example of this. I also like the Junction system...It was a lot more customizable than other ff games and diffucult to get the hang of properly. Great stuff.

[Zeromus_X]

Not to start the argument up again, but I do have a comment on Ultimecia's motivation. She states while possessing Edea during her speech to the citizens of Deling City (near the end of disc one) of how Sorceresses have been persecuted throughout history. That coupled with the fact of SeeDs persecuting her across time would indeed cause her to get pretty irritated and decide to end it all. Not much of a better excuse to go all nihilistic than many of the other Final Fantasy villains, but she isn't without depth. Of course, this also introduces some other plot holes, but FFVIII isn't really without those, as can be noticed.

That's all. :)

[ThroneofDravaris]

I've heard this brought up before and while it makes sense it is still just a theory. The lines that Ultimecia speaks aren't enough to determine whether perceution had any direct effect on her, or her motivation to compress time.

[Zeromus_X]

That's true. :)

[Slider]

Not to start the argument up again, but I do have a comment on Ultimecia's motivation. She states while possessing Edea during her speech to the citizens of Deling City (near the end of disc one) of how Sorceresses have been persecuted throughout history. That coupled with the fact of SeeDs persecuting her across time would indeed cause her to get pretty irritated and decide to end it all. Not much of a better excuse to go all nihilistic than many of the other Final Fantasy villains, but she isn't without depth. Of course, this also introduces some other plot holes, but FFVIII isn't really without those, as can be noticed.

That's all. :)

Doubted,
But still makes a very good point, her hatred for SeeD is obvious but maybe because she knew they'll stand in her way, I'm not sure!

[Yggdrasill]

One of my main dislikes about FFVIII is that it was so overly easy, even more so than FFIX.
The abusable Limit-break system and the fact that it's possible to take off 2000 or more damage by the end of disc-1 just makes me feel like the game has no challenge.

[Zeromus_X]

Doubted,
But still makes a very good point, her hatred for SeeD is obvious but maybe because she knew they'll stand in her way, I'm not sure!

She also wants to 'absorb the power of all Sorceresses across time' (according to Final Ultimecia's Scan), but there doesn't seem to be any reason for that either, unless she's going through her Kefka phase.

[ave]

likes= story , gfs, ending
dislikes= The Junction System, the random battles, the way rajin(sp?) says yaknow to much :)