Nice Theory (MAJOR ENDING SPOILERS)

[FFnut]

Rinoa = Ultimecia?

I finally beat this Sunday night and I noticed something very odd about the FMVs. After you defeat Finalultimecia and Squall tries to find his way out of Time Compression, you're presented with several FMVs of Rinoa, all being warped as Squall tries to remember when and where he wants to go. You may notice that in a few shots Rinoa's eyes are yellow and she has a face sort of superimposed on top of hers (it's possible to make out the cheekbones and some of the hair), as if they're trying to tell us something. Later on Ultimecia's face flashes on the screen a few times as well - she has yellow eyes. So I began to think - why would Ultimecia's face be superimposed over Rinoa's?

Then I began the following train of thought. Only two people knew what Squall had named his ring, and thus what GF would come from that ring - Rinoa also has a copy of that ring. Squall also mentioned that he'd be Rinoa's knight. Ultimecia tells us when she gives her power to Edea that a sorceress cannot die without first giving up her powers. With these facts, I pieced together the following timeline.

Past - Ultimecia arrives from TC and gives powers to Edea, and dies.
Present - The game of FF8.
Time Compression (TC) - Squall and co. defeat Ultimecia (the end of FF8). Ultimecia goes to the Past and Squall returns to the Present (after a brief pit stop in the Past).
Present - Squall and Rinoa lead a happy life.
Future - Squall dies of natural causes. Rinoa cannot die because of her powers, and becomes Ultimecia.
TC - Ultimecia, formerly Rinoa, causes TC and fights Squall and co. for the reasons following. Ultimecia goes to the Past to get rid of her powers and die peacefully.

This begs the question "Why would Rinoa fight them in Time Compression?" Remember, Rinoa had her happy life with Squall after the battle with Ultimecia. In order to keep time flowing smoothly (and thus have her happy life in her past, and Rinoa's future) she had to fight. She remembered fighting Ultimecia was key in having a happy life, so as Ultimecia she would have to fight. After that fight (and her mission to keep her and Squall together) was over, she gave her powers away and died.

Discuss.

[ShadowHeart]

You actually thought about this yourself? Impressive :)

I've heard of this theory many times, but I didn't think of it myself. I first encountered it in the FFVIII plot analysis at GameFAQs (there's a plot analysis FAQ for each of the later FF titles basically, and maybe other games as well). It doesn't lay it out exactly the same as you do, but the basics is the same - that Rinoa is Ultimecia. They discuss it back and forth and provide evidence for the theory. You may want to check it out at (thought I'd be nice and give you the direct link):

db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/final_fantasy_viii_plot_analysis.txt

(just copy and paste it into your browser)

It's a good read, I recommend you read it at least once (if only for the Who Is Ultimecia? part).

I'm not sure personally whether I believe it or not, but I'm leaning more towards believing it than not. There really is a lot that indicates that it's true. But apparently there are things that contraditcs it. I can't remember now what exactly that is, but chances are it's in that plot analysis. I may have to read it again myself :)

[ShadowHeart]

EDIT: Please delete this post.

[Squall85]

very interesting, I'd have to replay f8 to refresh my memory which i wouldn't mind doin : ) by the way good post

[Spiff]

Good theory, I never really noticed that. But couldn't she just give her powers to the person who would become Ultimeca? Your theory could be true but then that would be some good acting.

I think it would be more logical that she gave her powers to someone else and the powers eventually got into the hands of ultimeca.

EDIT: On the yellow eyes, those just might be the eyes that a sorcerer has.

[Luis]

To Shadowheart:
Thank you very much for the link!! I didn't know the theory about Squall's father...I never though Laguna could be...Just amazing!!
Thanks a lot!

[Zerlina]

I always just assumed Laguna was Squall's father.

[ShadowHeart]

It's not put out in the open in the game, it's just hinted at. Especially towards the end, when you can talk to Laguna, Kiros and Ward on the Ragnarok just before going to fight Ultimecia..

I never realized it the first time I played (I was told by a friend afterwards), and thinking about it now I must have been blind or something lol.

And, you're welcome, Luis :)

[FFnut]

It's in the cards.

Rinoa's dad has Rinoa's card. Zell's mom has Zell's card. Laguna has Squall's card.

Alright, I admit that it doesn't work for anyone else, but especially with those hints I found it significant that those three cards were probably held by their parents.

[ShadowHeart]

Heh, you're right about that, I never even made that connection :)

[SquallLionheart]

makes sense...

[Raven]

I never thought about that, good points.

[gcarev10]

I never noticed that somethings are munga bunga (frick).

[Squall Lionheart]

It is just a probability that Laguna can be Squall's father....(Then where did he get Leonhart name since he was NEVER adopted...) but i agree on the probability...
As for Rinoa....Its obvious without (over-analysing) that she said clearly to Squall...her powers will be inherited by many sorceress's(Whom they FOUGHT before getting to Ultimicia's Castle) untill they get to Ultimicia...what you all don't understand is that the Sorcress manipulated time on the risk off her OWN EXCISTENS in the universe (PAST-PRERSENT-& FUTURE to be VERY clear) & to finish off the myth with a lionheart.....
meaning there is no more Sorcress Ultimicia at any time...she won't be even in the future to inherit Hyne's powers....
By the way....the card theory is way off....does this mean that Selphie's friend is her mother.....or Laguna's father is.....etc...
To the first poster I say:first mistake is that Hyne's powers excited long before ultimicia and edea both........to make it clearer history changed (Balamb idea) When Squall was misdirected in the past....Ultimicia gave Edea her powers to exicst no more....meaning that if Squall haven't met Matron...there would be no SeeD and Ultimicia would have had the time Compressed.....
If you doubt me ask....if you can't put it together then .....''Whatever...''

[Squall Leonhart]

This made me think a little.

Ellone=Squall's sis
Laguna= Squall's dad, but Ellone's uncle?

How does this work?

[Squall Lionheart]

I double checked...Squall is most probably Laguna's child,
Rinoa will never be Ultimicia since she was born before her ,& fought other sorceress's who inherited her own powers, on their way to kill Ultimicia....Squall almost lost hope in the end because he thought killing Ultimicia would eliminate Rinoa (If they are the same) But survived when he found himself in the promise land with Rinoa!!!!
Laguna isn't really Sis's Uncle & Finaly I read Shadow's WEB page post......that girl is amazing but advice for members....read only storyline!!!
Her theory about Rinoa/Ultimicia can never be true!!! (plus she speaks about parallel universes & stuff not meant to be botered with!!)........

For the stuborn guys who read it all: Ultimicia's excistence is denied so the storyline CONTINUES AS SEEN that Squall and Rinoa and evreyone lead their lives...no such thing as time loop AT ALL..

[wimsi]

i'm sorry, but i think, the rinoa=ultimecia-theory could be true. the more i think about this theory the more i believe in it. i read on another homepage about it and it's very logical.
sad, that it's a german page ^^ but here some arguments:

1. sorceress's seem not to age. i mean, look at edea... she has to be at least 40 and looks no year younger than 20. ok, that point is not that good...
2. rinoa didn't become a sorceress the ordinary way. normally sorceress's have to give their powers to somebody before they die. but edea didn't die, when she gave her power to rinoa. what if the power wanted to get back to its real owner?
3. ultimecias last words: "Reflect on your...Childhood...Your sensation...Your words...Your emotions...Time...It will not wait
No matter ...how hard you hold on it escapes you..."
what if rinoa really couldn't age. she lived with squall who got old and died. she couldn't stop the time, she couldn't get him back. all she wanted was to bring her love back. for that reason she started the time compress. but because of her gf she forgot the reason why she did all this and she didn't even recognize her love when he stood in front of her.

these are only a few arguments... if you want to read them by yourself, contact me and i will give you the link to the homepage where i got this stuff (or am i allowed to post the link here?). but you have to translate it, because its a german page ^^

[Squall Lionheart]

1/3 correct...here is why....
1- Not a great point ....still I'll backfire it....you remeber all the sorceress's who we fought while traveling throught time to get to Ultimicia...... it was said (By Doc Odine...or during the battle itself) that these have recieved Rinoa's power through time UNTILL IT REACHED Ultimicia herself to become a sorceress...meaning Rinoa got eventually passed on her powers to live with Squall (That last one was a guess!)
2-....No offense..but there is no such thing as that....since Edea became officially normal by Doc Odine(The only unexplained point is wether He passed them up to Rinoa or he gotten ridden of it)...she never became a sorceress again....
3-That is the only good card in your hand since I won't pretend to understand what she meant by her words....
Actually what got me doubted was the last FMV in which Squall sees a blinking image of Rinoa & Ultimicia...by going to a site that had defined pictures....I noticed she was just trying a last attempt to destroy his most precious memories & the image was actually for Ultimicia,Rinoa,Seifer,Zell,Quistis,etc....Maybe that was what she meant by her words,so when he can't remember his loved ones he can't return to his time...(Same way they got to her Castle by remebering the orphanage)...but I'll say that this is just my guess since I said before that I didn't understand her words meanings...
Anyway you can post your site....they wouldn't love you for it thought,& I don't understand GERMAN!!!

[EDIT]: Forgot to show you one of my powerfull reasons....
Correct me if I'm wrong But wasn't Ultimicia possesing Rinoa on the Lunar Base?...
And she made her WALK PAST HER LONG SEARCHED ELLONE (So many cities & Ships destroyed & burned just to find her)JUST TO FREE ADEL!!!!
Common sense! (sry for the long msg)

[Zeromus_X]

no matter what anyone says, rinoa isnt ultimecia, since square confirmed that sorceresses in ffVIII have normal human lifespans. since its also confirmed in-game that ultimecia is many genereations ahead in the future, so rinoa, although a sorceress, cannot have lived that long.

itd be cool if they were the same person, but since theres so much evidence against it, it just isnt possible.

...though it did make my head hurt thinking of quantam physics for awhile o_0;;

[Squall Lionheart]

So you read that too!
Actually, I congratulate you for not coming out of it reapting what you read like a brainwashed bot!

[ShadowHeart]

I always used to say that you could believe whichever you wanted, since there were things hinting both ways. But if what you say is true, Zeromus, that Square really said that, then it really puts an end to all theories about this. When did they say that anyway?

[Squall Lionheart]

It was in the Information (as I remember), but one last theory.....upon fighting Ultimicia,getting expired in time means no longer existing.....so basically she can't do that to her-so-called-self......


It's just a matter wether you believe or not in Rinoa.....
follow your heart....

[Zeromus_X]

I always used to say that you could believe whichever you wanted, since there were things hinting both ways. But if what you say is true, Zeromus, that Square really said that, then it really puts an end to all theories about this. When did they say that anyway?

it was in this FFVIII ultimania guide, a japanese strategy guide with all this extra stuff in it... hold on...let me find something...

[Squall Lionheart]

In the end you'll simply find out that its just a lunatic guess based theory....

[ShadowHeart]

Well there's a FAQ at GameFAQs that discusses it, and they do have some good points about it. I don't think I ever was a believer, although that FAQ did have me doubting a little for a while, but I'm glad it's settled once and for all :p

[Squall Lionheart]

Whoever thinking otherwise will have me to deal with.....