Racism as a factor in Katrina aftermath

[Lyde Lyde]

Yes there is but I'm not talking about the raptress okay. There have been fuedal discussions on racism being involved on the rescues in New Orleans and Missisippi. The targets of the critisism are African Americans. Here's a pic showing what I meanhttp://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/09/01/photo_controversy/story.jpg But personally myself, I think it's wrong to be doing something like this during this time and my logical side says that this was supposed to happen, more people need to die in order to keep the human race alive. I couldn't imagine being there on my period without my things ooh that has to be terrible but the people should try to evacuate on foot even if does take days.

[Shaggy]

That is weird for you to say that " more people need to die in order to keep the human race alive" . That is a goofy way of thinking.

[Arkacia]

Ok Lyde Lyde, I watched a special on Australian tourists trapped in New Orleans earlier today and things aren't quite how you seem to think they are. First off, there are armed gangs roaming the streets. There have been murders, rapes, assults and thefts left right and centre. There is no law in NO and its just not safe for people to attempt to leave the city by foot. There are even some idiots shooting at relief helicopters who are trying to get food ect into the city.

The camera crew from Australia that managed to get 5 of our tourists out, but had to leave 29 behind in the hell hole that stadium has become due to lack of transport, needed armed escorts both in and out of the city. A group of 9 young Aussies are looking after each other in the stadium, the guys escort the girls to the toilets because of the number of rapes happening there. One of them said the latest victim is a 7 year old girl, raped and murdered. We have consouler officials twiddling their thumbs in Houston, but the American government won't let them into New Orleans to get our people out.

There is no food, no clean water, no sewerage and no electricity. Some of those looting are doing it for profit. Most are doing it to feed themselves and their families. Most of the innocent people left in the city are the poor who didn't have money or transport to leave.

Not being in the USA I don't know the full story, but something I've been asking myself is why the heck weren't the army sent in straight after the disaster in New Orleans to keep order and get people out. Why aren't they there now? Its been days, what the heck is your government waiting for?

[Luis]

Lyde Lyde, perhaps you would change your mind if the people who has to die is your own family. I do think it is a weird way of thinking too, obviously. And about the last questions of Arkacia, I'll tell you why: Because there's no petrol in New Orleands.

[Arkacia]

Actually I think there is Luis. I remember hearing that New Orleans has some of the US's oil refineries in and or around it. Not sure about this though. I do know that there were more than a few oil drilling platforms offshore in the gulf and a few were destroyed. I'll try to rustle up some proper facts on this, but on another site I post on, the Americans are saying that the hurricane destroying oil supplies and refineries is a major cause of their sudden gas price rise.

[ShadowHeart]

More people need to die? Yeah, that's a very strange attitude..

And Arkacia, lots of the American army, their military helicopters and so on, are in Iraq.. and the help has arrived now, they're actually getting people out of there now and food.. of course, there's no excuse for how it took for anything to happen.

An American National Guard officer in NO that was in Afghanistan during the invasion said that the situation in NO is actaully worse than it was in Afghanistan for the people there..

[Arkacia]

I just found this story from the BBC site about the disaster and lack of official response which is interesting to read.

Click Me (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4210674.stm)

This news report is very interesting too and covers the disaster from an American viewpoint (I think).

Click Here (http://thestaronline.com/news/story.asp?file=/2005/9/5/worldupdates/2005-09-04T215358Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_-214960-3&sec=Worldupdates)

[Lyde Lyde]

Well my way of thinking is actually logical, many scientists believe the same, if our pop. on Earth continues to grow, we'll die of starvation. My friend Andrew believes that God made it happen so that he could keep us alive. Andrew also says that's also the reason for uncurable diseases.

[Andrew Scaves]

You sure know me well, but I think I can speak for myself and yeah that's my opinion.

[Arkacia]

Thats rubbish I'm sorry. The world is perfectly capable of feeding itself 5 times over right now with plenty of room for extra production if we wanted to grow it. The reason starvation exists is not lack of food, but not distributing what we have equally.

Think of how much food is wasted in the 1st world (North America, Europe and Australia/New Zealand) each day, both by producers and us everyday people, and you'll get an idea of what I mean. Instead of giving it to people who need it, producers will destroy it because its cheaper for them to do that than cover distribution costs. That is the cruncher, we in the 1st world value our respectve currencies over the human lives else where in the world.

Too many humans on the planet won't mean us all starving to death. We'll drink the planet dry first. Its fresh water supplies that will fail first, as unlike food, we can't grow water. Australia's current population is about as high as our nation can cope with simply because of the massive strain on our lakes and rivers.

Now to get back to the topic. I don't believe in God, so in no way think some God (who is supposed to be loving and giving from what the believers say about it) decided to kill off a few thousand innocent Americans to cut the population down. If a God was responsible surely it would start its efforts off in nations like India and China. After all those two nations are the two largest in terms of population. Also incurable disease is just that and won't stay incurable forever. In the 19th century people died of diseases that are easily cured today. In 100 years people will be cured of diseases we die of today. Its just a matter of time.

[ShadowHeart]

I agree full-heartedly with the last paragraph, Arkacia. I don't believe in God either.

Lyde Lyde, "God made it happen so that he could keep us alive", you say? Okay, how many people were expected to have died there, 10000? To put it in world population perspective, that's a whopping 0.000167% of the world's population. That's not going to make any difference whatsoever "to keep us all alive". None at all.

I hate talking about people in numbers like that though.. this was a catastrophe beyond human understanding. I know a guy in New Orleans who lost his house and almost everything he owned. At least he's alive and got his family though..

[Arkacia]

I have a small admin request for both Lyde Lyde and Andrew Scaves. Could you both please shrink your sig pics down a bit. They are massive and overpower your posts and the thread. Thanks :).

[Andrew Scaves]

No as you see, things take time, God wouldn't want to kill that many at once, to cause too much catastrophe in our world, that's why we have diseases, he wants to limit us to what we can do. Like STD's. He doesn't want us to have sex so frequently when it is practically made for reproduction and yes about the human pop. growing too far, that's why in China they limit of how many children you can have, so that they can save resources and such.

About these sigs, how come we can't have them bigger when there's so much space for them, it just leaves too much blank space for me.

[Arkacia]

Just because there is space doesn't mean it has to be filled. You can collapse the RGP stats in everyone's posts and bring the posts back to normal size by going into the RPG link at the top right of the forum, then headquarters, then clicking on the "display RPG stats in dropdown" option as shown in the attachment below. That cuts out a lot of the extra space ;):D.

China has relaxed its one child policy now under pressure from the rest of the world and its own people. The policy was not that effective anyway because it only applied to people living in the cities and towns. Country people were always allowed to have more children to help the parents on farms ect. They also realised that the one child policy was resulting in a majority of boys being born compared to girls. It is believed in the age groups affected that there are 3 or 4 boys to each girl as there is a strong preference for male children. That is already causing problems with men finding wives.

Click for Info (http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa092799.htm)

I'm sorry but you'll never convince me that some God is trying to reduce the population by stealth. These are just natural disasters, with emphasis on the word "natural". The world wide birth rate would have more than replaced those killed in this disaster within 24 hours. India alone probably replaced half of them. Even the over 100,000 killed in the boxing day tsunami have been replaced and then some. It will take a world wide catastrophe killing thousands of millions to ever put a permanent decent sized dent in the population figures. The last I heard the world population was up to about 40 billion people.

As for the diseases, I've already answerd that. In the 19th century people died like flies from infection because there were no antibiotics, today we don't because we do have them. Thats the simplest example. STDs are the result of stupidity because people don't take precautions, not God saying "don't have sex". Married people get STDs, just not at the same rates.

[Luis]

With my reply, I meant there have been 5 days till the army went!! That's too much for such a developed country like the States, don't you think so? Army still is in Iraq, but they didn't go to save the people of their own country 'till the 5th day?? For sure, the Army doesn't decide when and where to go...for sure the fault is another one's... (¿G. Bxxh?)
Man, sometimes I can't believe some people still have your thoughs (it's for Andrew and Lyde Lyde) Arkacia, I think I didn't need to say you're right, because it's obviously you are. I won't be the one who says whether God exists or not, but what I'm absolutely sure, is that what you say God doesn't influence our world. Man, that's too much fantasy for someone like you!! Humans are the only originators for disasters and deseases, and the only ones who can try to solve this problems or keep destroying the world for selfishly purposes(this purposes are usually summarised in a word: money). However, I respect all thoughts and believes. In the world of animals, some DO have to die so others can eat..in the human world this is ridiculous! That's been a very annoying disaster, and I continue saying you probably wouldn't think the same if you were in New Orleans or if someone really near to you was.
I'm glad this forum has some people like you Arkacia.

I won't be the one who says whether God exists or not, but what I'm absolutely sure, is that what you say God doesn't influence our world.

I meant to say, "what you call God", now I think it's more clear :)

Admin Edit Luis please don't double post. Its against the forum rules and a warnable offence. If you want to add something and yours is already the last post in a thread, click on the edit button and add it that way. That will save you getting into trouble :).

[Spiff]

It's day 8 and the water is being pumped out, the gangs are being shut down. Granted, it is going to take some time to pump the water out, but for the amount of damage to the city and the transpostation mess and the refugee mess, I think the response was quite quick.

Hurricane Andrew was stronger than this one and people rebuilt; time heals all wounds.

[Arkacia]

Yes Spiff, I saw that on the news last night and its good to see the people finally being taken out of the city to safety.

We have 3 missing Australians in New Orleans and one of our consulour officials snuck into the city to try to find them (he tried to get in the legal way, but your government is worried about an international incident if he gets killed). He is currently doorknocking trying to find them though his search has been hampered by national guard soldiers warning him that if he enters any empty buildings, he will be considered a looter and shot on sight. While I don't want anyone killed that way, it is good to see the soldiers taking a no tolerance stand on the criminal elements that have been preying on the city and its victims.

I'm sure the US and its people will bounce back from this. The main question I'm hearing now is whether New Orleans should be rebuilt in its current location or moved to a safer area.

[Lyde Lyde]

Now we're stsrting to save some more victims and bring them to a lot of states, but Arkacia, if you don't believe in a god, then what is your religion?
Edit: Shooting people just because you see them in an empty building, that's just not right.

[Arkacia]

I don't have a religion. I'm an atheist. That means I have no faith or belief in any form of higher being.

I can understand why the soldiers have a shoot on site order. Its to bring order back to the city. As long as no-one is still looting and going where they shouldn't be, no-one will get hurt. If there are still looters in the city (for profit, not need) and they get caught, then I have little sympathy for them.

[ShadowHeart]

I'm an atheist too, and besides my grandparents, I don't know anyone (besides a few people I've only chatted with online from other countries, mainly the US) who is religious.

And yeah, I don't have much sympathies for looters either. After all you gone through with the hurricane, then you have whatever remains stolen by some idiots who took the opportunity?

[Spiff]

If they took what they needed for survival, then I wouldn't have a problem because their goverenment wasn't much help. Stealing plasma tv's? You don't even have electricity. :rolleyes:

I would either have stronger levies built, or raise the city above water level (which won't happen).

[Luis]

Sorry about my double post, I forgot I can also edit it :p
About the topic, I think I said almost all I had to. A town near mine was moved to a safer area after a flood we suffered..but I also must say this town is a really small one. In the case of New Orleans, I think it will probably be rebuilt in the same place.

[Andrew Scaves]

I don't understand, if any of y'all don't have a religion, then what's your basis on life and what prevents you from doing wrong things?
2nd: I don't understand why citizens refuse to leave the city, is it because they want to catch disease and die from all of the sewage? They must not be educated or right in the head, there are 10,000 people doing this, I'm an American with a dream.

[ShadowHeart]

Did you seriously not know that there are people out in the world who are not religious? You seriously need to open your eyes if that's true. In any case, just because you don't believe in a god or any other higher being, doesn't mean you don't have morals and ethics.

And the second thing.. some people refuse to leave the city right now because they are afraid of losing whatever they have left to looters. Before the storm hit, some people didn't leave because they couldn't afford to or they were simply unable to (old, sick people for example). After the storm hit, you couldn't leave the city even if you wanted to, until the evacuation really got under way, and I guess some criminal elements remained to take advantage of whatever was left :/

[Luis]

Shadowheart is right. People don't need religion in order to know how to behave or what to expect of life. I think religion is an alternative to people who may be afraid of feeling alone or who need some other supports in life. I was grown in a religious education, but I think it's really good to be able to choose when you grow up and start thinking by yourself. :) And about this:I don't understand, if any of y'all don't have a religion, then what's your basis on life and what prevents you from doing wrong things?

People basis on life is their education. And religion is (or may be) only a part of this education. Lots of people don't need(neither do I) religion in order to know if they're doing wrong thing. This is ethics. And I don't like a religion telling me whether my actions are good or not. I think I already can do it by myself. Anyway, it's really hard to distinguish what is well-done or what's wrong for so many people.
But again, the basis for that is in the education, and I think education has nothing to do with religion(it's my point of view). Being honest, I'll tell you that people who think their beliefs are the true ones and do not accept neither respect other people's beliefs, make me sick. :mad:
And I could keep typing about it, but I don't want to bore you neither to waste time. I hope this may guide you to the light...oops, I meant to understand other ways of thinking are as good as yours! :p

[Shaggy]

I don't understand, if any of y'all don't have a religion, then what's your basis on life and what prevents you from doing wrong things?
2nd: I don't understand why citizens refuse to leave the city, is it because they want to catch disease and die from all of the sewage? They must not be educated or right in the head, there are 10,000 people doing this, I'm an American with a dream.
Andrew, you need to get a little more info on the NO deal before you go screaming about these people being idoits. Like Shadow said, that is the reason. Get a clue of what is going on in the world before you say anything about it. ;)

[Andrew Scaves]

I wasn't calling them idiots.

[Arkacia]

Well I can understand why Shaggy thought that Andrew Scaves. "Not right in the head" and "idiot" do mean pretty much the same thing ;):).

[Spiff]

Anyway, Reports are that the water will be gone by the end of the month. I keep hearing that people want indictments, but it seems a bit stupid to take people away from the relief effort to just put them in jail. They should at least wait until the job is done.

I thought I'd share this... They are .... so black. (http://wolfblitzer.ytmnd.com/)

[Zeromus_X]

What is that supposed to mean?(the link) and to comment on racism, id think that humans had gotten over that by now. i mean, its the 21st century, we need to get over this ignorance...maybe someday... :(

[Shaggy]

Zero, I don't think it will ever end. There are just to many racist people in the world today. There will always be differences in the world, racism, belief, anything. Its sad but there is nothing that anyone can do to change it, well not in the near future.

[Spiff]

What is that supposed to mean?(the link) (

I don't know what it's supposed to mean, but I thought it was too funny that he said that on live TV.

[Totorosama]

The whole issue is just showing us how many problems there are in the world. While some stupid idiots are stealing, killing, and whatever, everyone else is suffering. Personally, I think the laws should be much stricter. You get to stay in a cell with free food for a year or two? What kind of lame punishment is that? Rubbish. Also, what Lyde Lyde and Andrew said about the population thingy, it does have a ring of logistics to it. It's sort of like," If you don't know what's pain, then you don't know what's joy. Without anything to compare what you have with, you don't appreciate it." Of course, I would have preferred for less people to have died, but the lesson was for the Americans (and everyone else) to be more prepared. There are too many problems in this world, and the people who can afford to help all to much aren't helping enough, and the people who can't afford to help at all are helping to much.