*Whacks KB for spam post*
Now, where were we? XD;
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor
So God lets us suffer because we brought things like original sin upon ourselves, so not everyone deserves to be saved? That's the answer that I gathered.
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Umm...that's not what I was trying to say - sorry if I didn't make my answer too clear.
1) Yes, we ALL deserve the punishment of a just and holy God.
2) However, He has made a way to come out from under this punishment - a state that He calls 'sin' or 'death,' and into a relationship with Him. Through the grace (or unmerited favor) of God we are saved. ***Note UNMERITED - it's not by our own merit that we can be forgiven for the wrong in our lives.
~~~This lengthy quote is taken from Romans 5 and illustrates my above two points~~~
Romans 5:
1Therefore, since we [His Church] have been justified through faith,[in God's provision for our state of sinfulness] we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us. [The Spirit of God lives in the hearts of His redeemed people]
6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die.
8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
[bolded sections to emphasize my point - God demands punishment for sin, but by His grace He affords us the opportunity to have access to Him by Jesus' death, burial and resurrection]
9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! 10For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
3) His Church - or the people who've chosen to accept His grace - have the specific job of healing, teaching, correcting, loving, providing for, sheltering and nurturing (among other things) others. In the past, God has miraculously healed people and fed millions of people. For His glory and divine purpose He chooses to use His Church IN THIS AGE to adminster help and healing to the world around us.
4) You have to also consider that some of the suffering in this world is man-made - corrupt, money-/power-hungry governmental oppression. I've heard it said that when you give money to the poor, starving children in Africa you have to be careful HOW you give it - because it may actually be going to goverments or terrorist groups there. O_O!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor
One thing I might understand more is that God's love, apparently, comes through our own good actions, our own love and kindness. Am I wrong?
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That is something that many people think - but it is incorrect. Trying to earn God's favor (or, even more difficult: appease his wrath) is impossible - at least on our own accord. Could you imagine choosing to sacrifice someone dearly important to you so that others might live - only to have them say: 'What did you do that for? That's not good enough - I'll save myself.'?! I'd equate that to the ultimate smack in the face.
The Bible is very clear in its message:
Ephesians 2
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor
So in the end, it's really up to ourselves to end the suffering in this world?
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Yes and no. In the present age we find ourselves in: yes. But ultimately, God will end all suffering once Jesus returns in the age to come.
Revelation 21
1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."