evolution- yes/no

[Xartex]

Originally Posted by Unknown Kaze

To Spec: It couldnt have just evolved just like that. One of the fundamentals of the theory of evolution is that a species evolves over a period of time based on a gradual yet distintive change on its phenotype and genotype - and it would take millions of years for that to happen so the rattlesnake species cant just change its genes in anything less than a million years. Also I dont think that America has changed that much in a number of years....

It doesn't have to take a million years, it is takes a long time for a species to evolve but if the conditions are right, it can take less than 100 000 years, wich is still a long time.

You are right about that it is unlikely that it evolved like that, but think about it, you say that america hasn't changed much in number of years. But for 1000 years ago there were only indians living there and no things such as pollution, and you also don't really know how the climate was back then maybe it was a hotter climate. A lot has changed in just in the last century, we've got a explotion in the amount of humans living in the world and we expand inte new areas all the time. So you can't really say that America hasn't changed.

[Unknown Kaze]

Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris

Not quite

Some of the scriptures he wrote that he says contradict with each other just..... dont

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And as to the others (espically the Good God, or just to a few part), if he had read the previous chapters, he would know WHY God did what He did.

[ultimecia]

i believe that evolution is true and i think in so many years we wont need our bodys so everyone will just be floating brains which would be really funny and the people with the smallest brains were cool and people with the biggest brains are obviously clever and all girls went with people who had the biggest brain i cant exactly imagine it happening but its a interesting thing to think about if you like that kind of thing.

[Staircase]

Originally Posted by Unknown Kaze

The bible doesnt have flaws.... seriously, research on it, I did, and still am.

I think there are alot of things in the bible that are false. But i still believe in god.

Noahs ark : one man cant hold 2 of every animal in a boat in a town that flooded for 40 days, however from his point of view...

He could have taken 2 cats, and 2 dogs, and to him it may have been every animal he has seen, dogs and cats. Then used a raft to stay afloat on 40 very rainy days, that flooded about 2 feet.

Moses parting the red sea : Even if an ocean had no water in it, seas arnt flat. It would be next to impossible to walk on the bottom of a sea. But, it could have been a very dry day and they crossed a very shallow part of it.

I think alot of the bible was just misinterpritations, but i still believe there is a higer force than man.

[Avathar]

Oh, I do believe in God, but not the Christian version of God.

And even if the bible is filled with misinterpretations, I respect it, since it's all about human experiences, which can't really be explained, only interpreted.

The Old Testament is good literature, though!

[Staircase]

Originally Posted by Avathar

Oh, I do believe in God, but not the Christian version of God.

And even if the bible is filled with misinterpretations, I respect it, since it's all about human experiences, which can't really be explained, only interpreted.

The Old Testament is good literature, though!

My exact thoughts 100%, except i haven't read the old testament, so i don't know about that.

[Phoenix Flame]

Originally Posted by Avathar

When it comes to evolutionism, it's not a matter of believing in it. It's based on actual facts.

The Christian God is based on what? Stories.

Facts and faith are two different things. Don't get them mixed up.

I'd like to take a stab at aswering this also.

Evolution is also based on faith. Have you ever (personally) seen a change in the physical form of a species? Where you there when the spark of life (and where did that spark come from anyway?) made a single-celled lifeform out of muck?

No, evolutionism is also based on faith. Either you put your faith in God and stop trying to do things your way. Or you put your faith in science - and we've all seen how great destruction that power can wield. Or you put your faith in nothing...which, by the way, is still belief in something.

[Avathar]

Well, yes, ultimately each religion, and also each science is based on a belief, I'm not ignoring that factor! Now, I'm not a scientologist or anything, but the thing is:

Theories such as evolutionism are far more appealing, due to logistics. Logistics that make sense towards our world, the human way of thinking and living.
Men could say that everything is made up. Which, when you look at philosophy: theories work out, especially in science, they work out for humans 'cause they make perfect sense, and work out for human life.

We all agree on Einstein's formula's, but when you look back to the first scientific theories: They were made up, but with perfect logistics!

(And for the record: I believe in natural forces, God as a cosmic force, not the Christian version, portrayed as a person.)

But just to say, something like evolutionism is certainly partially based on a faith, on the belief that it works. Faith in something that doesn't work, but just causes a kind of spiritual comfort (such as Christianity), that's not really for my way of living the life; although it's definetly fullfilling thinking about it.

[Phoenix Flame]

Originally Posted by Avathar

Well, yes, ultimately each religion, and also each science is based on a belief, I'm not ignoring that factor! Now, I'm not a scientologist or anything, but the thing is:

Theories such as evolutionism are far more appealing, due to logistics. Logistics that make sense towards our world, the human way of thinking and living.
Men could say that everything is made up. Which, when you look at philosophy: theories work out, especially in science, they work out for humans 'cause they make perfect sense, and work out for human life.

We all agree on Einstein's formula's, but when you look back to the first scientific theories: They were made up, but with perfect logistics!

(And for the record: I believe in natural forces, God as a cosmic force, not the Christian version, portrayed as a person.)

But just to say, something like evolutionism is certainly partially based on a faith, on the belief that it works. Faith in something that doesn't work, but just causes a kind of spiritual comfort (such as Christianity), that's not really for my way of living the life; although it's definetly fullfilling thinking about it.

Laws are in-your-face and make sense...theories are man's best guess based on the evidence at hand. I haven't seen much evidence in the fossil record (not that I've studied every fossil) that evolutionism is true or false. Broken down, your statement basically says...

Man's best guess works for me because it meshes well with how I reason, how I think. Man's way of thinking, how he holds it and how it affects us, (philosophy) when you look at our best guesses, makes sense.

<Errrrr...meh? Isn't that circular reasoning?>

Please understand, my intention is not to poke/make fun of you - I respect you!

Just trying to get you to think about what you think about. I know that for the longest time I denied the truth because I simply didn't was to deal with it. Didn't want to acknowledge that I was trying to do things my way and that it wasn't working. This world isn't about order and 'evolving' into something better. Science has actually made what evil that was in the world worse.
Science has done a LOT of good also. But it's not the scalpel - it's who's holding it that makes the difference.

Science circumcised me.
God circumcised my heart.

[Avathar]

Originally Posted by reasoniamalive

Science has actually made what evil that was in the world worse.
Science has done a LOT of good also. But it's not the scalpel - it's who's holding it that makes the difference.

Science circumcised me.
God circumcised my heart.

But you'd have to admit: Imagine: Today the day, a world without scientific reasonings, and only religious standards: it wouldn't work at all for the people of today.

That might have worked out, like, 700 years ago, but think of it this way:

Which holds more possible threats: religious beliefs, or scientific facts (even though you'd come to the conclusion that these facts aren't really facts). From what I know, religious beliefs have caused the most wars throughout history, well, maybe not caused it, but they were surely a big encouragement! (From the crusades to the First World War (where both France and Germany were Christian nations, but both considered themselves far better Christians than the other.), and of course, the many examples of Jihad, with the amounts of martyrs.)

Now, I'm not saying religion is a bad thing for one person, definetly not. But the way I see it: any belief (may it vary from Orthodox Christianity to Agnosticism) is surely for the benefit for one person's personal development.

I'm not even sure what the name would be of my "religion", but that determination doesn't even matter, as long as I can feel an experience, which I find partially fulfilling, with the fact that thinking about it is definetly something positive.

But I still stand tall to the evolution theory. It's a mere theory, but for most people in today's society, it actually works out, even though many of these people 'd be devoted Christians, as long as they find it fulfilling to their lives that they live.

[Phoenix Flame]

Originally Posted by Avathar

But you'd have to admit: Imagine: Today the day, a world without scientific reasonings, and only religious standards: it wouldn't work at all for the people of today.

That might have worked out, like, 700 years ago, but think of it this way:

Which holds more possible threats: religious beliefs, or scientific facts?

I do admit, religion is not all some people make it out to be. That's because most people who are 'religious' have missed the mark. God does not call us to be religious in a sense most of us know - He calls us into a relationship. He wants a personal, connective bond with us into our lives and then He wants us to connect with others. Traditional 'religion' is worldly - not necessarily wrong, depending on the organizations views, but unless they get this fundamental truth, they are not living out God's purpose for their lives.

On the other hand, science has made the world what it is today. Although we may disagree about many things from religious viewpoints to politics, just the point that we CAN disagree at all from 1/2 way around the world is facsinating. I love the sciences! I can't imagine any culture throwing away reason and logic. I just don't see it as The Answer - I'm sure you get my point.

[Avathar]

Oh, I get your point, no prob there, and

Originally Posted by Reasoniamalive

Please understand, my intention is not to poke/make fun of you - I respect you!

It's called a discussion for some reason.

[Axel]

In my opinion I believe that evolution is change, in a sense, or the way we adapt as a race. For example, take the Neandertal they stayed in one general region in modern day Europe. They were nomads, roaming, searching for food untill it was scarce. Homo sapiens on the other hand developed the brain power to create tools and utilize them. Which brings me to my conclusion, evolution is not evolving from a certain animal, but the way we adapt to our surroundings

-Jhimian