Cloud/Zack SOLDIER Mistake (I Think)

[Barret05]

Ok so I'm just playin FF7 Disk 1 (for the 10th+ time) and i reached costa de sol and there i met Johnny agen (red haired dude at midgar) and he says something like this "I remember you you used to be in soldier ypu were such a £$%^% Murderer"
Thats not excatly what he said but dats along the line. I'm jus thinkin even if they walk and act the same i think that there hair and face and the fact cloud wasn't in soldier wolud be a gud reason not 2 get mixed up .wot do u think

[Arkacia]

I thought Cloud was in soldier, he just wasn't the higher ranked one (Zack was). If I remember right, Cloud was the soldier who got motion sick in the transport to his home town (Zack and Sephiroth were travelling in it too) and was one of the two soldiers dressed in the blue uniforms.

I haven't played the game for a while but do remember that coming out during the dream like bit when both Tifa and Cloud were in the lifestream and she was inside his head trying to bring out the real him. I could be wrong though and hope someone will correct me if I am .

[ShadowHeart]

Hmm, but Tifa says during the lifestream event that "Two men from SOLDIER were ordered to Nibelheim, it was Sephiroth and one other person", or something like that. That would imply that the 2 soldiers dressed in blue, Cloud was one of them, were just regular soldiers or grunts, not actually members of SOLDIER. And Cloud says after returning to the Highwind that "I was never in SOLDIER" (I can check up the actual game script if needed, it's at GameFAQs).

And Barret05, regarding what Johnny said: When Cloud and Tifa had their little talk in the beginning of the game about his promise to her, everyone in Sector 7 was listening in on them (you will know this by talking to the townspeople the morning after). I'm pretty sure that Cloud and/or Tifa mentions Cloud joining SOLDIER during that talk, so that would mean everyone in Sector 7 who was listening would know that Cloud used to be in SOLDIER ("know", based on what they overheard).

[Barret05]

Shadowheart I agree with what you say but why would Johnny say I REMEMBER you in soldier i dunno from what i've seen of johnny bein a perv and all i dont really trust him

[ShadowHeart]

Well, since he heard the story of Cloud and Tifa, their promise and Cloud leaving to join SOLDIER, he remembers what he heard then.. I guess.

[Spiff]

SPOILER

Cloud never made it into SOLDIER,(as said when they're in Cloud's mind) and he had to much pride (I guess) to actually believe he didn't. So he heard the story from Zack and made it about him.

Hope that clears it up/

As to the original post, I have no idea. I never talked to that guy.

[Luis]

That's right, Cloud wasn't a SOLDIER member, he was a regular one. I don't think he did that because of this pride... He just was a very confused guy. ( Why couldn't he remember? Was it for the Mako? For the manipulations he and Zack suffered? I CAN'T remember either )

[Spiff]

Originally Posted by Luis

That's right, Cloud wasn't a SOLDIER member, he was a regular one. I don't think he did that because of this pride... He just was a very confused guy. ( Why couldn't he remember? Was it for the Mako? For the manipulations he and Zack suffered? I CAN'T remember either )

Pride was probably the wrong word; it's more like he was ashamed that him didn't make it. So he told the story sith him in it, and after so many times of telling it he began to believe it. Finally, he believed and became "master of his own illusionary world."

[Bahamut Ultima]

the way i experienced it was that cloud never made it into soldier because he was a failed experiment, from hojo. He used a part of zack's lifestory for his. He feels weak and failed because he wasn't a soldier, because he promised tifa that he would become the best soldier and he would save her. when he falls into the lifestream, tifa, someway enters his mind and unreavels his mystic past, so he wouldn't feel guilty anymore, cause he did save her.

I tought a soldier was a sort of super soldier because of the mako effects. Some soldiers were infected with jenova's cells to become sephiroth clones as a experiment. cloud was a failed experiment, so he wasn't worthy of being a soldier...

Help me out on this one...

[ShadowHeart]

Originally Posted by Bahamut Ultima

the way i experienced it was that cloud never made it into soldier because he was a failed experiment, from hojo.

No no no. Hojo didn't experiment on Cloud until after the Nibelheim incident. Cloud had already tried and failed to join SOLDIER before the Nibelheim incident (that's why he's there as a regular Shinra soldier).

[Bahamut Ultima]

but how was cloud able to block sephiroth's attack at the reactor. Isn't sephiroth reffering to his failure???

[ShadowHeart]

How Cloud could throw Sephiroth into the Lifestream and all that? I guess that was just a pure adrenaline rush or something It was AFTER that which Hojo came, gathered up all the survivors, including Cloud and Zack, and performed experiments on them. Tifa on the other hand escaped that thanks to Zangan (you can find this out by reading a letter from Zangan to Tifa found in Tifa's room, in her piano if you play the right music on the 2nd/3rd disc IIRC). Before the whole Nibelheim incident, Cloud was just a regular guy (except that he may have been showered with Mako like all SOLDIER members when attempting to join SOLDIER).

EDIT: I'll just add that the game doesn't explain how Cloud survived the attack and managed to throw Sephiroth in the the Lifestream, but fact remains he hadn't been "enhanced" through experiments yet. What I'm guessing is just that the stab is not as bad as it looks, maybe it just cuts through the side of his uniform under his armpit or something, and in an rush of adrenaline, Cloud grabs the sword and tosses Sephiroth down into the Lifestream. There can be other explanations as well, but this seems fairly believable to me

[Totorosama]

I thought that he beat Sephiroth because he was better then, and that's why Hojo (at Costa de Sol) was talking to him about being an experiment. Also, didn't he forget a lot of things, like how he beat Sephiroth? This is all very confusing.

[ShadowHeart]

...

He was an experiment, after the Nibelheim incident.

After Cloud threw Sephiroth into the Lifestream, Hojo arrives to the burnt out village and collects all survivors for experiments. Cloud and Zack are being kept in the basement of the Shinra Mansion and experimented on, they are injected with Jenova cells and so on. Zack is a strong person so he doesn't respond to the treatment at all, while Cloud flips out completely. Eventually they manage to escape but Shinra soldiers catch up just when they reach Midgar and they shoot and kill Zack, but they leave Cloud be as they think he's harmless due to the Jenova treatment (if you go to the Shinra Mansion basement you can watch a sequence about this and you'll understand why they thought Cloud was harmless). Anyway, Cloud assumes Zack's memories and story as his own - as in really believing that's how it was - and "forgets" what really happened until Tifa helps him remember on the second disc in the Lifestream.

So as I said, yes, he was an experiment, he was injected with Jenova cells, but that was after the Nibelheim incident. Cloud throwing Sephiroth into the Lifestream was completely his own doing, he wasn't "enhanced" yet.

[Luis]

I can't remember how Cloud defeated Sephiroth. Did he throw him to the Lifestream? How and when? I can't remember it...