Forums | RPG | Guild

Go Back   Final Fantasy Network > General > Serious Discussion and Debates
Community Mark Forums Read

Serious Discussion and Debates For serious subjects. Curent events, news, religion, politics and science. As this is a debate forum posts in here MUST HAVE at least 20 words and be relevent to the discussion.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-26-2008, 10:27 AM   #1
 
Phoenix Flame's Avatar
Phoenix Flame
Go Umbarbar do my bidding
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: By myself. It's lonely ;-;
Posts: 3,044
Send a message via MSN to Phoenix Flame
Ask about...God?! ?_?

I must admit, I'm no expert. But many people have questions that need answered about Him. I'm hoping that people may use this as a way to get those questions asked/answered.

Note that some general questions may be answered with opinion...while most I'll try to back up with scripture. While I'm at it, I might as well just as a general question probably on some people's minds here...


'If 'God' exists, what does he/she/it mean to me?' The answer next post...maybe. = d







Also note that any flames will not be tolerated. If you don't believe there's a God - don't answer/reply unless you have an opinion that may shape the discussion. Thanks!
__________________
Fight, if there is something to fight for.
Never give in, or give up - but ALWAYS give.
Choose your battles wisely.
You only get one shot at life. Follow your heart.
Phoenix Flame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2008, 06:53 AM   #2
 
Phoenix Flame's Avatar
Phoenix Flame
Go Umbarbar do my bidding
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: By myself. It's lonely ;-;
Posts: 3,044
Send a message via MSN to Phoenix Flame
Re: Ask about...God?! ?_?

Q: So if God exists, what does that mean to me?

A: Well, this is sort of a mixed answer...I'll try to keep it as short/concise as possible. Its in two parts I think, and its important to note that it ONLY matters if God has anything to say about us and the way we live our lives....or cares about us at all.

...its good to know that He does care - as these verses point out:

* Psalm 33:13-14 - From heaven the LORD looks down and sees all mankind; from his dwelling place he watches all who live on earth

* David praying to God - Psalm 119:73 - Your hands made me and formed me; give me understanding to learn your commands.

* Again, In Romans, Paul reveals this piece of scripture - Romans 9:20-21 - But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

* Hagar (Heygar), after being mistreated and forced to flee her home, intended to die in the desert when God showed up. He promised her a future for her and her unborn son. She then said to Him (God) 'You are the God who sees me.' So you see, God is interested in our lives - first He formed us and He watches over us. So then, we're almost 1/2 way done answering the question...

The first part of the answer is: God exists, He's looking out for/watching over us - so we MIGHT want to know what He's like - what He wants - WHO He is...and maybe what He expects of us.

I believe that - in order to have the title 'God' One would have to be incredibly powerful and wise, all-knowing, always present, perfect or without fault..... With all that power and might - I wouldn't want to 'tick Him off.' XD; So I'd like to know as much as possible as what He's like and if there's anything I could do to get on his 'Nice List.' = P

The second (and last) part of the answer I'll cover is: what does our lives look like when compared to what God expects of us? This may seem kinda simple: you don't do your homework, you get crap grades on projects/tests - you fail school...well - school is only a small part of life; and its only a ruler to measure how the SCHOOL SYSTEM thinks you're doing...God's ruler is a LOT longer.

1 Samuel 16:7b - The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.

We should, therefore, keep a close watch over our hearts...

Proverbs 4:23 - Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life.

...because...

Matthew 15:18-20a - But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man 'unclean'


To sum everything up in a sentence, I would say 'Because there is a God, we should take care to learn about Him; it should matter to us because He can tell us the truth about who we are and what we're doing here.'



...hoping someone has a question. I'll wait a little before I post another. =3
__________________
Fight, if there is something to fight for.
Never give in, or give up - but ALWAYS give.
Choose your battles wisely.
You only get one shot at life. Follow your heart.
Phoenix Flame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2008, 02:45 PM   #3
 
Doctor's Avatar
Doctor
Highwind Captain
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hulle Granz Cathedral
Age: 33
Posts: 1,172
Send a message via AIM to Doctor
Re: Ask about...God?! ?_?

Ohhhh man..

Well, first off, if God is always watching over us, why are there still so many more people who are suffering? Does he ENJOY watching us suffer until we get to go to heaven or hell or wherever it is that we go? If I'm going to believe in him, I would like to think of him as a kind and loving lord who would do anything to end the suffering of the sick and impoverished. I'm sure that god doesn't want to have to do everything for us...he wants us to LIVE out our lives. It's one thing to say that, but it's another thing once you look at those who can't live out their lives because they suffer so much. Does God WANT the children in Africa to starve to death? Does God WANT people to die from AIDS? I don't think so. At least, I'd like not to think so.

If God is watching over us so lovingly, WHY DOES HE LET US SUFFER?

(One might argue that I'm trying to put the blame of a man-made problem on God, and that's why he isn't helping me or anyone right now. But that defeats the purpose of my arguement, doesn't it? =P )

"Matthew 15:18-20a - But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man 'unclean'"

So the heart is unclean. Then why do human beings have feelings such as kindness, thoughtfulness, love, gratefulness--and why then do we do things like help those in need, fall in love, share with each other, do what we can to protect each other and our environment...I could go on and on and on. There are so many good things about a human being that often outweigh the bad--we all just tend to focus on the bad things in the world, and it makes everything look corrupted and evil. There IS corruption and evil, I won't deny that...but we all know the cliche--good always triumphs over evil--right?

We depend on God too much. And yet at the same time, we need a miracle from him now more than ever. Will we get it? Will it be another five-hundred years or so before we even have a chance of recieving a miracle? Do miracles even exist? If the human race is so impure, so 'unclean,' do we even deserve a miracle?

Answer me that.
__________________
'All games contain the idea of death.'
--The Lords and the New Creatures
Doctor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2008, 01:26 AM   #4
 
Yoko Kurama's Avatar
Yoko Kurama
With a shattered heart...
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: The Hollow Bastion/Radiant Garden
Age: 33
Posts: 428
Re: Ask about...God?! ?_?

Wow... Very deep... Faust, that is really a good point... Phoenix, may I ask you something? Why make this a sticky? I know that your God is important to you, but it that really necessary? I mean, you made it a sticky the second you posted it... No offense is meant by this, I assure you...

Either way, I believe that Faust, Doctor, excuse me, has a good point... If he is an all merciful God, then why does he allow suffering? I beg you not to use the old cliche of "we put this on ourselves"... Sorry if I just sounded like a complete and utter jackass...
Yoko Kurama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2008, 08:20 AM   #5
 
Phoenix Flame's Avatar
Phoenix Flame
Go Umbarbar do my bidding
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: By myself. It's lonely ;-;
Posts: 3,044
Send a message via MSN to Phoenix Flame
Re: Ask about...God?! ?_?

Yes yes, very good points Doctor. As I mentioned in my PM, I am very busy this week. Not only am I working the next 4 nights (including tonight) but I have just moved into my first apartment. X3 But rest assured/give me a day or two and I'll answer your questions.

...as for Yoko...
No! You don't sound like a jackass. x3 I stickied quite a few threads (not just the day I made this one.) I did so because such seem to be 'Hot Topics' and I felt that they deserved to be stickied. As for this thread - yes, this topic is something that is very dear to my heart (obviously) and I chose to sticky it. If there are any other threads members feel should/need to be stickied, let myself or another Mod know and we'll probably be glad to do so.

...please be patient with me = 3
__________________
Fight, if there is something to fight for.
Never give in, or give up - but ALWAYS give.
Choose your battles wisely.
You only get one shot at life. Follow your heart.
Phoenix Flame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2008, 08:16 AM   #6
 
Phoenix Flame's Avatar
Phoenix Flame
Go Umbarbar do my bidding
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: By myself. It's lonely ;-;
Posts: 3,044
Send a message via MSN to Phoenix Flame
Re: Ask about...God?! ?_?

'If God is kind and loving, then why does he allow suffering in the world?'

As you know - this is no easy question to answer. It involves a little bit of faith, so I pray that you will hear what the heart of what I'm really going to say is. I know it is not me trying to convice you - I would do a terrible job of that anyway and - REALLY - who wants to be conviced of anything anyway?! So, without further ado, allow me to (try and) tackle this question. There is really SOOOO much to it that we could spend several pages simple talking (or arguing - as the Doc said) about why a Holy, loving and caring God would allow the suffering of people; I'll try to keep it to one-to-two posts. =S

First, there has to be evidence that God IS loving, and that He DOES care about us. Over and over again, scripture states the character of God.

Hebrews 6
10God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them. 11We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure.

Psalm 42
8 By day the LORD directs his love,
at night his song is with me—
a prayer to the God of my life.

Matthew 7
9"Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

1 John 3
1How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! ....and

1 John 3
16This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. 17If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? 18Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.



I want to point out something in the verses above - do you see the heart of God here? 'How can you know God if you don't help those less-fortunate than yourself?!' Those only interested in what live can give them will never 'have it all together.' I believe that there is something that releases us to have fuller, happier lives when give.



1 John 4
7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.




Getting over anyone's head yet? The above verses are talking about an 'atoning sacrifice,' and that He sent his ONLY SON to be that sacrifice...more on this in a minute. Its simply important to note that God provided the sacrifice - and this was a VERY costly sacrifice.



Still doubting that God loves us - or perhaps you feel like you could never be loved - you are an 'unlovable'? I know I've felt like that before. That's when I'm thankful to hear words of encouragement from scripture to know that I AM loved by God...


How about Hosea 3?
1The LORD said to me, "Go, show your love to your wife again, though she is loved by another and is an adulteress. Love her as the LORD loves the Israelites, [AKA: God's people] though they turn to other gods and love the sacred raisin cakes.

Jeremiah 29
11 For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. 12 Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you.


If you'll indulge me in just one more... The Psalmist writes:
Psalm 103
8 The LORD is compassionate and gracious,
slow to anger, abounding in love.

9 He will not always accuse,
nor will he harbor his anger forever;

10 he does not treat us as our sins deserve
or repay us according to our iniquities.

11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth,
so great is his love for those who fear him;

12 as far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us.

13 As a father has compassion on his children,
so the LORD has compassion on those who fear him;

14 for he knows how we are formed,
he remembers that we are dust.

15 As for man, his days are like grass,
he flourishes like a flower of the field;

16 the wind blows over it and it is gone,
and its place remembers it no more.



So, by just these past few verses we see that God is loving. This still doesn't answer our question - Why then, is there still suffering?! Why are people starving, why AIDS/HIV, why the mass-murder, hate crimes, genocide...WHY, IF THERE IS A LOVING GOD WOULD HE ALLOW ALL OF THE ATROCITY IN THE WORLD?!!?


O_o

Well, I have an explanation. This is, by no means, meant to be an exhaustive look at these facts either. More of just a brief history and run-down of how God is choosing to deal with the world today. Admittedly, we understand that there is evil in the world. There's no better example that I can think of off the top of my head of a recent talk show I happened upon at a friend's house. The guest was a gentleman (I use the term very losely) who KNEW he had AIDS/HIV - he was on the show to tell his story. OK, fair enough. So what's he got to say?!

Man: I have had unprotected sex with many men - some of them family men who haven't 'come out of the closet' to their families. I don't care if I'm killing them. I don't care if I'm killing their spouses. I don't care if I'm killing INNOCENT CHILDREN. In my point of view, they should know better to have unprotected sex and if they don't ask - I don't tell.

Host: So you don't feel bad that you could be killing innocents?

Man: No.

Host: And they say that I can't hit people on this show... >_>; What did those children ever do to you?



I got sick to my stomach and couldn't watch it any longer. If anything I would say that this exemplifies the above verse that says that if we don't have love (for others or for ourselves) it shows we don't know God. If I were God - I don't know if I could allow someone like that to live. o_o; I guess I'm thankful that I'm not God....although I sometimes act like it. I have no right to condemn this man. Who am I?! God knows what I've done in this life. However - I think we would all agree that something is not right in the garden...so-to-say. =3

This man, like so many of us, is a slave - living under the law of sin and death. The result of a fallen, broken world that does not know God or the Truth. God said '...do not eat from the tree in the middle of the garden - the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you do you will surely die.' This was a physical death (eventually) because we were designed to live forever - originally anyway. But when Adam and Eve took the fruit after being deceived by Satan, they had a SPIRITUAL death. A death that transcended this life because they sought to become like God. Since then, sin - and death through sin - has been handed down from one generation to the next until today.

Romans 5
12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— 13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam.



So, one reason why things are as screwed up is - as Yoko said - we did it to ourselves...sorry, but it's true. But, if that's the only answer you've ever heard up until this point you've been misinformed. Listen to this text:

2 peter 3

8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.


Joel 2
"Even now," declares the LORD,
"return to me with all your heart,
with fasting and weeping and mourning."
13 Rend your heart
and not your garments.
Return to the LORD your God,
for he is gracious and compassionate,
slow to anger and abounding in love,
and he relents from sending calamity.
__________________
Fight, if there is something to fight for.
Never give in, or give up - but ALWAYS give.
Choose your battles wisely.
You only get one shot at life. Follow your heart.

Last edited by Phoenix Flame; 02-02-2008 at 09:03 AM.
Phoenix Flame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2008, 09:04 AM   #7
 
Phoenix Flame's Avatar
Phoenix Flame
Go Umbarbar do my bidding
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: By myself. It's lonely ;-;
Posts: 3,044
Send a message via MSN to Phoenix Flame
Re: Ask about...God?! ?_?

God is slow to anger and is longsuffering with patience BECAUSE he loves us. He COULD wipe out all the 'evil' people in the world...but that would be all of us. 0.0! More on this topic can be found by reading the book of Romans in the New Testament...and with the help of the Holy Spirit. But there is (at least) one more reason why God doesn't ACT and do-away with all of the wrong that is in the world. His love is made perfect when we love others - remember?

Going back to 1 John 4:11 - Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.


I'm sure you've probably heard the old hymn: 'Amazing Grace'....you know? 'Amazing grace! How sweet the sound that saved a wretch like meeeeeeeeee' XD; Well, what you probably didn't know is that the man who wrote that song was a slave trader - a bottom-feeder. Prior to having a relationship with God through Jesus Christ his life was a mess. But afterwards, John Newton's life radically changed directions. It took him a while to understand having a relationship with God was really all about - but the once-slave-trader-turned-abolitionist and missionary turned his life around and let many people to a relationship with God. He's left behind a legacy, along with his hymn 'Amazing Grace,' that serves to give hope and bless countless people around the world. Another individual we could point to would have been/is Mother Theresa. She touched millions of people - starving, destitute, broken and hurting from around the world. In an interview - she once said that she received all her compassion from her 'lover' Jesus Christ - whom she felt blessed and honored to know.

*sighs deeply*

.__., I hope that helps to answer that question. The 'miracle' you're looking for is all around you. The miracle of the gift of a more-abundant life - eternal life. The miracle of a new day, a new chance to change your life and repent and lead a life honoring and pleasing to God. We all need to be reminded daily that He is for us, not against us - that is unless you don't know Him.

Revelation 3
19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent. 20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. 21To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.
__________________
Fight, if there is something to fight for.
Never give in, or give up - but ALWAYS give.
Choose your battles wisely.
You only get one shot at life. Follow your heart.
Phoenix Flame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2008, 03:45 AM   #8
 
white mage's Avatar
white mage
Chocobo Jockey
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tennessee.
Posts: 266
Send a message via Yahoo to white mage
Re: Ask about...God?! ?_?

'Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline.' That is taken diretly from the Bible correct? And yet, with all of the faithful on this Earth, none have been rebuked or disciplined. We (humans in general) have destroyed the Earth that God gave us. Commonly, if a father saw his kid destroying that child's toy beyond repair, even breaking it in some way, he'd discipline the child in some way. God has yet to do that, and we've destroyed the Earth about as much as we can. Also, have you noticed that the Bible is both Racist and Sexist? Its mostly completely intolerant of all things that arent itself.
__________________


Love me.
Hate me.
Just stay out of my way.
white mage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2008, 05:18 AM   #9
 
Phoenix Flame's Avatar
Phoenix Flame
Go Umbarbar do my bidding
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: By myself. It's lonely ;-;
Posts: 3,044
Send a message via MSN to Phoenix Flame
Re: Ask about...God?! ?_?

Quote:
Originally Posted by white mage View Post
'Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline.' That is taken diretly from the Bible correct? And yet, with all of the faithful on this Earth, none have been rebuked or disciplined.

It is. But you are incorrect in your assumption that God doesn't discipline us. 'Be sure your sin will find you out' is quite a popular quote from scripture. But - to give a couple examples, I'd like to point out a few from scripture itself.

King David - known as one of the greatest kings of Israel - God called him 'A man after my own heart.' He walked very closely with God in worship, in humility...*in killing the enemies of God. Yet he stumbled headlong into sin when he saw from his palace: Bathsheba bathing on her roof. (This story can be found in the Old Testament - in 1 Samuel 11-12.) He proceeded to commit adultry and then try to cover up his sin by murdering the man she was married to - Uriah. When the prophet of God came to him and confronted him about his sin - although he repented - Nathan told him that because he had sinned against God and made His enemies show contempt, the child that was born from the affair would die....and God brought that to pass. Seven days later the child was dead...yet this is what David wrote in response to what had happened.

*Taken from Psalm 51

Against you, and you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight, so that you are proved right when you speak and justified when you judge. Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Surely you desire truth in the inner parts; you teach me wisdom in the inmost place. Cleanse me with hyssop, and I will be clean; wash me, and I will be whiter than snow. Let me hear joy and gladness; let the bones you have crushed rejoice. Hide your face from my sins and blot out all my iniquity.

Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me. Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me. Restore to me the joy of your salvation and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me. Then I will teach transgressors your ways, and sinners will turn back to you.



Although he thought he had gotten away with his sin by killing Uriah - God saw what had happened.

Another example of God's judgement/discipline would be when He wiped the Earth clean of life except He saved a remnant in the Ark (Noah and his family with the aminals)
= 3 Cool bedtime story FTW!? I think so. = D

One more example, this time from the New Testament, would be Ananias and Sapphira. Take a minute to read this exerpt.

(Taken from Acts 5)
1Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2With his wife's full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles' feet.
3Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."

5When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. 6Then the young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.

7About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8Peter asked her, "Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?"
"Yes," she said, "that is the price."

9Peter said to her, "How could you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also."

10At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.


Sometimes we wish that God would act more like in this example. Personally, sex offenders disgust me. Rapist, pedophiles, and individuals like the man I mentioned in an earlier post...I could just as easily live life without ever hearing about that or having to know someone who's life they affected. Yet God allows them to live - for remember: 'Return to the LORD your God,
for he is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and abounding in love,
and he relents from sending calamity.' and: ...'he does not treat us as our sins deserve or repay us according to our iniquities.'


As far as the second part of your objection goes...

'Also, have you noticed that the Bible is both racist and sexist? Its mostly completely intolerant of all things that arent itself'


...when you have a planet, and create life and order - you can set it up however you want. He is God and He made it how He saw fit to make it

...the bible CAN be viewed as sexist - especially in the Old Testament at times because of what it has to say about women's 'place' - but if you remember, when God made Eve from Adam, He didn't take a foot bone for the woman to be trampled on, or a head bone that she should be over the man either. He used a rib bone! Signifying that they should be joined together, arm-in-arm. Neither greater or less-significant then the other. Instead - after the fall - man's heart became proud and we learned what good and evil was all about. Individuals could choose to exert their strength over others and subdue them, abuse them, belittle them...but from the beginning it wasn't like this.

...and I don't see why you would say that it is racist, could you clarify your question/point there for us?
__________________
Fight, if there is something to fight for.
Never give in, or give up - but ALWAYS give.
Choose your battles wisely.
You only get one shot at life. Follow your heart.

Last edited by Phoenix Flame; 02-03-2008 at 05:23 AM.
Phoenix Flame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2008, 12:05 AM   #10
 
Doctor's Avatar
Doctor
Highwind Captain
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hulle Granz Cathedral
Age: 33
Posts: 1,172
Send a message via AIM to Doctor
Re: Ask about...God?! ?_?

Not sure just how the bible is racist myself--unless you count some of the black people that may have been slaves back then. Back then, though, people of any color were slaves--there were slaves and servants left and right. Gyah, I don't know what I'm trying to say, here. Although, I do agree that the bible is intolerant of anything that does not agree with what is written in itself. After all, the bible was written for CHRISTIANS, and anyone who solely believes in God and that Jesus is the messiah. Any other religion is therefore rejected and shunned and 'damned,' or whatever you want to say..

So God lets us suffer because we brought things like original sin upon ourselves, so not everyone deserves to be saved? That's the answer that I gathered.

One thing I might understand more is that God's love, apparently, comes through our own good actions, our own love and kindness. Am I wrong?

So in the end, it's really up to ourselves to end the suffering in this world?

I consistently question these things because I'm a rebel--God, to a lot of people, is somewhat of an authority figure, and I can't help but try to test and question any kind of authority. I don't believe in being bossed around, and most rules seem like a punishment to me. (Even though there are some good ones. XP )

Which brings up my next question; why should we believe that God has any authority over us? Sure, he may have made us, but he made us with hearts and minds, and gave us the gift, the ability, to think for ourselves and to live out our lives as we want. So why should we listen to him? Why would he give us these gifts if he wanted us to do what he says we should do?
__________________
'All games contain the idea of death.'
--The Lords and the New Creatures
Doctor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2008, 10:04 AM   #11
 
kb-sama's Avatar
kb-sama
Master Summoner
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lost In The Item World
Age: 34
Posts: 2,769
Send a message via AIM to kb-sama
Re: Ask about...God?! ?_?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor View Post
Not sure just how the bible is racist myself--unless you count some of the black people that may have been slaves back then. Back then, though, people of any color were slaves--there were slaves and servants left and right. Gyah, I don't know what I'm trying to say, here. Although, I do agree that the bible is intolerant of anything that does not agree with what is written in itself. After all, the bible was written for CHRISTIANS, and anyone who solely believes in God and that Jesus is the messiah. Any other religion is therefore rejected and shunned and 'damned,' or whatever you want to say..

So God lets us suffer because we brought things like original sin upon ourselves, so not everyone deserves to be saved? That's the answer that I gathered.

One thing I might understand more is that God's love, apparently, comes through our own good actions, our own love and kindness. Am I wrong?

So in the end, it's really up to ourselves to end the suffering in this world?

I consistently question these things because I'm a rebel--God, to a lot of people, is somewhat of an authority figure, and I can't help but try to test and question any kind of authority. I don't believe in being bossed around, and most rules seem like a punishment to me. (Even though there are some good ones. XP )

Which brings up my next question; why should we believe that God has any authority over us? Sure, he may have made us, but he made us with hearts and minds, and gave us the gift, the ability, to think for ourselves and to live out our lives as we want. So why should we listen to him? Why would he give us these gifts if he wanted us to do what he says we should do?


Ugh....this topic makes my head hurt....
__________________


"I Have No Idea Whats Go'in on"
kb-sama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2008, 07:28 AM   #12
 
Phoenix Flame's Avatar
Phoenix Flame
Go Umbarbar do my bidding
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: By myself. It's lonely ;-;
Posts: 3,044
Send a message via MSN to Phoenix Flame
Re: Ask about...God?! ?_?

*Whacks KB for spam post*

Now, where were we? XD;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor View Post
So God lets us suffer because we brought things like original sin upon ourselves, so not everyone deserves to be saved? That's the answer that I gathered.
Umm...that's not what I was trying to say - sorry if I didn't make my answer too clear.

1) Yes, we ALL deserve the punishment of a just and holy God.

2) However, He has made a way to come out from under this punishment - a state that He calls 'sin' or 'death,' and into a relationship with Him. Through the grace (or unmerited favor) of God we are saved. ***Note UNMERITED - it's not by our own merit that we can be forgiven for the wrong in our lives.

~~~This lengthy quote is taken from Romans 5 and illustrates my above two points~~~

Romans 5:
1Therefore, since we [His Church] have been justified through faith,[in God's provision for our state of sinfulness] we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us. [The Spirit of God lives in the hearts of His redeemed people]

6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

[bolded sections to emphasize my point - God demands punishment for sin, but by His grace He affords us the opportunity to have access to Him by Jesus' death, burial and resurrection]

9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! 10For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.



3) His Church - or the people who've chosen to accept His grace - have the specific job of healing, teaching, correcting, loving, providing for, sheltering and nurturing (among other things) others. In the past, God has miraculously healed people and fed millions of people. For His glory and divine purpose He chooses to use His Church IN THIS AGE to adminster help and healing to the world around us.

4) You have to also consider that some of the suffering in this world is man-made - corrupt, money-/power-hungry governmental oppression. I've heard it said that when you give money to the poor, starving children in Africa you have to be careful HOW you give it - because it may actually be going to goverments or terrorist groups there. O_O!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor View Post
One thing I might understand more is that God's love, apparently, comes through our own good actions, our own love and kindness. Am I wrong?

That is something that many people think - but it is incorrect. Trying to earn God's favor (or, even more difficult: appease his wrath) is impossible - at least on our own accord. Could you imagine choosing to sacrifice someone dearly important to you so that others might live - only to have them say: 'What did you do that for? That's not good enough - I'll save myself.'?! I'd equate that to the ultimate smack in the face.

The Bible is very clear in its message:

Ephesians 2
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor View Post
So in the end, it's really up to ourselves to end the suffering in this world?

Yes and no. In the present age we find ourselves in: yes. But ultimately, God will end all suffering once Jesus returns in the age to come.

Revelation 21
1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."
__________________
Fight, if there is something to fight for.
Never give in, or give up - but ALWAYS give.
Choose your battles wisely.
You only get one shot at life. Follow your heart.

Last edited by Phoenix Flame; 02-07-2008 at 07:54 AM.
Phoenix Flame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2008, 07:56 AM   #13
 
Phoenix Flame's Avatar
Phoenix Flame
Go Umbarbar do my bidding
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: By myself. It's lonely ;-;
Posts: 3,044
Send a message via MSN to Phoenix Flame
Re: Ask about...God?! ?_?

...about your second question Doctor, I'm going to wait until tomorrow to answer it. Some things are coming to mind already, but my time is limited as I can only get online three or four days a week now; and then - only late at night.


...more tomorrow. =3



Update: Doc, I'm not going to write a long scpeal about this - its really simple, yet profound in its application.

God loves us, He understands our pain and suffering (because Jesus endured it while he was on the earth.) God ways/rules are GOOD. Doing the opposite of what he says almost always brings negative consequences. Just take the 10 commandments for starters...or just the BIG TWO: Love God with all of your heart, strength, mind and spirit - and love your neighbor as yourself. If everyone did just those two don't you think that 95% (or more) of the world's problems would be fixed?

Something that I thought about yesterday is that sometimes He allows us to go through things - somethings terrible things - so that we are refined, either to help us conquer something else that may come along the way in the future, or for another's benefit. Yet, for everything we may endure in this life, I am convinced that He has a plan and a purpose.

Romans 8
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
__________________
Fight, if there is something to fight for.
Never give in, or give up - but ALWAYS give.
Choose your battles wisely.
You only get one shot at life. Follow your heart.

Last edited by Phoenix Flame; 02-09-2008 at 04:54 AM.
Phoenix Flame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2008, 01:49 AM   #14
 
white mage's Avatar
white mage
Chocobo Jockey
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tennessee.
Posts: 266
Send a message via Yahoo to white mage
Re: Ask about...God?! ?_?

It says that blacks (please excuse the word) are he seeds of the devil, which, if Im not incorrect, is racist. And all of the punishment happened back when Jesus walked the earth, 2000 years ago. Few, if anyone, are being punished now. If anyone is, remember the saying-type-thing "a single stone can change a river" or something? Well, the general masses are the river, and God's punishment needs to be the stone. Or maybe a bunch of stones, I dunno. I sounded a lot better in my head...
__________________


Love me.
Hate me.
Just stay out of my way.

Last edited by Phoenix Flame; 02-09-2008 at 04:45 AM. Reason: No need for that long quote = 3
white mage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2008, 04:46 AM   #15
 
Phoenix Flame's Avatar
Phoenix Flame
Go Umbarbar do my bidding
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: By myself. It's lonely ;-;
Posts: 3,044
Send a message via MSN to Phoenix Flame
Re: Ask about...God?! ?_?

I can't find anything like that in scripture - if you find it, let me know. Otherwise, I think someone sold you that idea.

The only thing I can say about your comment about God's punishment is what I've already said about Him wanting that all should come to repentance. Contrary to some people's opinion, God is not standing behind/above them with a giant mallot/bat just waiting for them to screw up so He can whack 'em. He's very patient and waiting to forgive people for what they do wrong - but He is also Holy and just. Therefore, it would be a mistake to think that you can go through life doing whatever wrong you felt like thinking that you had time to change later...for we're not guaranteed tomorrow.

I wouldn't want to stand before Almighty God on the day of judgement - either in the next life or when Christ returns - and not have anything to say when/if He asks me 'Why didn't you repent? Depart from me, you who do evil; I never knew you.'
__________________
Fight, if there is something to fight for.
Never give in, or give up - but ALWAYS give.
Choose your battles wisely.
You only get one shot at life. Follow your heart.

Last edited by Phoenix Flame; 02-09-2008 at 05:03 AM.
Phoenix Flame is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -3. The time now is 01:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright FFNET.NET