FFVII's Cloud Strife...man, or mako?

**Phoenix Flame** · 11-26-2005, 02:46 PM

Ok, so it's abundantly clear during the storyline of FFVII that Cloude is...how can we say this...? He's not really him, right? The story goes that he was "constructed by Hojo piece by piece" after the Mt. Nibelheim incident. And through the abilities afforded him by Jenova's cells, he was able to conjure up memories from Tifa and their childhood.
But something troubles me about these statements...

We know he was severly injured by being run through by Sephy's sword in the reactor, and he was taken by the Shin-Ra for experimentation and, er - reconstruction right? So is he a shell - anotherwords, is his body an empty vessel and Jenova through the will of Sephiroth is the puppeteer? I've been confused on this point for a while now ya know??? How do you guys take it? And if he is, how come he comes around and defeats Sephiroth? Does he negate Sephiroth's control, and if so, when and how does he do it. I thought this was a very involved question and would appreciate your collected viewpoints. Thanks.

Gumdrop · 11-26-2005, 04:15 PM

Because the Jenova cells and his feelings towards Sephiroth he feels drawn to the reunion but I don't think he can be controlled, hes not a puppet/clone he just gets mistaken for one, you find that out in that bit when Tifa is in his head.

Thats how i see it.

gcarev10 · 11-27-2005, 12:34 PM

genetic modification between mako and jeniva cells and sefirot that what hi is.

wakka · 06-06-2006, 07:35 AM

when he is a boy he all ways wanted to be just like sephiroth

Zeromus_X · 06-06-2006, 07:39 AM

Zack is dead. Final Fantasy or not, getting shot at by numerous soldiers constitutes death.

(All theories aside.)

Besides *SPOILER*

If you see Advent Children, you can see Zack's spirit with Aerith's at the end of the movie.

Lucrecia is in that crystal in her cave. (It took me awhile to discover this.)

Sephiroth 'lived on' in the SHM by the Jenova cells, like a bug in a cocoon waiting to hatch, as they put it. (They could've executed it a bit better, but I guess fans like their Sephiroth...:/)

wakka · 06-06-2006, 07:40 AM

hojo wanted to make another sephiroph after insedent at neblim reactor because hojo is sephiroph father

Zeromus_X · 06-06-2006, 07:43 AM

Hojo awaited the Reunion, but I dont' see how you think he wanted to create another Sephiroth. Although, I wouldn't doubt it coming from him. (He isn't exactly all the way there.)

wimsi · 11-27-2005, 04:07 PM

my point of view:
cloud left his home to become a member of soldier., but he wasn't able to do so. but he came to the army. there he met zack and they became good friends. zack became an idol fot cloud.
when they had to go to nibelheim, clod felt ashamed that he couldn't become a SOLDIER, so he hided his face.
when he was hurt through seph, hojo found him in the reactor and took him to the shinra-villa to make some experiments with him and zack.
a few years after that, they escaped and zack was shot. cloud was still a little bit unconcious at this time. somehow he managed it to get to midgar where tifa found him.
i think, it was his clothes and his wish to become a soldier what made him believe, he was really a soldier. somehow he mixed his own past with zacks and made up this weird story.

and i really think, that he was somehow infected by jenova, that's the reason why it could controll him.
but what about geostigma? vincent said, its somehow caused by the jenova-cells. so why didn't he get this illnes earlier????

**Phoenix Flame** · 11-27-2005, 07:19 PM

Good question Wimsi...But no one got geostigma until later evidently. I'm trying to pick the storyline apart to better understand a great classic. Would appreciate any fan's thoughts/views.

**Phoenix Flame** · 12-23-2005, 07:39 PM

Does anyone else have any views on Cloud...?

==========SPOILERS===========

I'm leaning more towards Cloud being originally human, near-death after the Nibelheim incident, then reconstructed (something like what happened to Vincent) by Hojo and infused with Jenova cells...however, a couple of things don't add up.

All the other characters in the story who were infected w/Jenova cells either went crazy or survived to be uber-tough to kill (Sephy, Hojo.)

Another thing...what the hell is going on with the OTHER Cloud? (You know, the young Cloud who runs around when Cloud looses it...i.e. when he gives the Black Materia to Sephiroth.) Is this like separate personalities or something because I can see that if Jenova is controlling him...

**Phoenix Flame** · 06-01-2006, 05:27 AM

Another question...is it ok to double post after a few months to get your question anwered? Cause I was really curious about that last one. :-)

Zeromus_X · 06-01-2006, 05:28 AM

Yes, go ahead. (Of course if it's been months. xD)

Although to answer your question, I'm pretty sure that you're spot on. Of course, Cloud went into a catatonic state after the experiments, and that was when Zack was helping him around. (Until they got shot at...and you know the rest.) Then Tifa finds him, and then a week later the events of the game fold out, etc.

It's probably just his childhood self or something? Well, that would be something up to interpretation. (Unless it wasn't translated well enough, or something.) Although it's probably just his concience.

murza · 06-01-2006, 08:08 AM

the way i see it is that when cloud found about the truth no-body had control of him, maybe the jenova cell got killed? lol

i mean he was a failed experiment of hojo and before the northen crater he was living a lie and now he found out the truth maybe that changed everything

but then if u ask me man or mako i would say both? his body is probaly made out of mako, but then his memories and personality is man? lol i think this makes sense

**Phoenix Flame** · 06-02-2006, 07:05 AM

^ hmmm... an interesting theory, but something doesn't add up to boot. What about Geostigma? If the Jenova cells were killed-off (or whatever) he wouldn't have it necessarily. So I guess that does away with that.

He does say "I was showered by mako" but I remember him saying that before knowing the truth. I think we need Shadowheart's incredible mind in on this one...

What do you say? Both Man, AND Mako, or one/other?

Thinking about this actually gives me a headache. Failed experiment - yes. Weak personality put him in a catatonic state. I think I see a little clearer...

Zeromus_X · 06-02-2006, 07:09 AM

If you haven't seen the one-episode anime 'Before Crisis' (I believe it's called), you should, reason. It goes over the Nibelheim incident, albeit changing some minor details. I just thought it'd be informative. (You can probably find it on Google video or YouTube, no doubt.)

I believe the order of events went like this (CIW):

-Cloud applies for Soldier. Doesn't make the cut. Becomes ShinRa lacky.
-Cloud gets mixed up in Nibelheim incident. Sephy scene.
-Cloud gets captured by Hojo, becomes lab rat momentarily.
-Escapes with Zack. Get shot at. Cloud escapes. Goes to Midgar, and meets with Tifa.
-Game plays out.

CIW, of course.

11-26-2005, 02:46 PM	#1
Phoenix Flame Go Umbarbar do my bidding Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: By myself. It's lonely ;-; Posts: 3,044	FFVII's Cloud Strife...man, or mako? Ok, so it's abundantly clear during the storyline of FFVII that Cloude is...how can we say this...? He's not really him, right? The story goes that he was "constructed by Hojo piece by piece" after the Mt. Nibelheim incident. And through the abilities afforded him by Jenova's cells, he was able to conjure up memories from Tifa and their childhood. But something troubles me about these statements... We know he was severly injured by being run through by Sephy's sword in the reactor, and he was taken by the Shin-Ra for experimentation and, er - reconstruction right? So is he a shell - anotherwords, is his body an empty vessel and Jenova through the will of Sephiroth is the puppeteer? I've been confused on this point for a while now ya know??? How do you guys take it? And if he is, how come he comes around and defeats Sephiroth? Does he negate Sephiroth's control, and if so, when and how does he do it. I thought this was a very involved question and would appreciate your collected viewpoints. Thanks.

11-26-2005, 04:15 PM	#2
Gumdrop Highwind Pilot Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: England Age: 37 Posts: 697	Re: FFVII's Cloud Strife...man, or mako? Because the Jenova cells and his feelings towards Sephiroth he feels drawn to the reunion but I don't think he can be controlled, hes not a puppet/clone he just gets mistaken for one, you find that out in that bit when Tifa is in his head. Thats how i see it.

11-27-2005, 12:34 PM	#3
gcarev10 Master Thief Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Where Dimension Interval Age: 48 Posts: 486	Re: FFVII's Cloud Strife...man, or mako? genetic modification between mako and jeniva cells and sefirot that what hi is.

06-06-2006, 07:35 AM	#4
wakka Cactuar Thorn Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: bisade island Age: 33 Posts: 95	Re: FFVII's Cloud Strife...man, or mako? when he is a boy he all ways wanted to be just like sephiroth

06-06-2006, 07:39 AM	#5
Zeromus_X Master Summoner Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Core of the Moon (Phoenix, AZ) Age: 96 Posts: 2,931	Re: FFVII's Cloud Strife...man, or mako? Zack is dead. Final Fantasy or not, getting shot at by numerous soldiers constitutes death. (All theories aside.) Besides SPOILER If you see Advent Children, you can see Zack's spirit with Aerith's at the end of the movie. Lucrecia is in that crystal in her cave. (It took me awhile to discover this.) Sephiroth 'lived on' in the SHM by the Jenova cells, like a bug in a cocoon waiting to hatch, as they put it. (They could've executed it a bit better, but I guess fans like their Sephiroth...:/) Last edited by Zeromus_X; 06-06-2006 at 07:42 AM.

06-06-2006, 07:40 AM	#6
wakka Cactuar Thorn Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: bisade island Age: 33 Posts: 95	Re: FFVII's Cloud Strife...man, or mako? hojo wanted to make another sephiroph after insedent at neblim reactor because hojo is sephiroph father

06-06-2006, 07:43 AM	#7
Zeromus_X Master Summoner Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Core of the Moon (Phoenix, AZ) Age: 96 Posts: 2,931	Re: FFVII's Cloud Strife...man, or mako? Hojo awaited the Reunion, but I dont' see how you think he wanted to create another Sephiroth. Although, I wouldn't doubt it coming from him. (He isn't exactly all the way there.)

11-27-2005, 04:07 PM	#8
wimsi Cactuar Thorn Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: austria Posts: 70	Re: FFVII's Cloud Strife...man, or mako? my point of view: cloud left his home to become a member of soldier., but he wasn't able to do so. but he came to the army. there he met zack and they became good friends. zack became an idol fot cloud. when they had to go to nibelheim, clod felt ashamed that he couldn't become a SOLDIER, so he hided his face. when he was hurt through seph, hojo found him in the reactor and took him to the shinra-villa to make some experiments with him and zack. a few years after that, they escaped and zack was shot. cloud was still a little bit unconcious at this time. somehow he managed it to get to midgar where tifa found him. i think, it was his clothes and his wish to become a soldier what made him believe, he was really a soldier. somehow he mixed his own past with zacks and made up this weird story. and i really think, that he was somehow infected by jenova, that's the reason why it could controll him. but what about geostigma? vincent said, its somehow caused by the jenova-cells. so why didn't he get this illnes earlier???? __________________ can sin be forgiven?

11-27-2005, 07:19 PM	#9
Phoenix Flame Go Umbarbar do my bidding Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: By myself. It's lonely ;-; Posts: 3,044	Re: FFVII's Cloud Strife...man, or mako? Good question Wimsi...But no one got geostigma until later evidently. I'm trying to pick the storyline apart to better understand a great classic. Would appreciate any fan's thoughts/views.

12-23-2005, 07:39 PM	#10
Phoenix Flame Go Umbarbar do my bidding Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: By myself. It's lonely ;-; Posts: 3,044	Re: FFVII's Cloud Strife...man, or mako? Does anyone else have any views on Cloud...? ==========SPOILERS=========== I'm leaning more towards Cloud being originally human, near-death after the Nibelheim incident, then reconstructed (something like what happened to Vincent) by Hojo and infused with Jenova cells...however, a couple of things don't add up. All the other characters in the story who were infected w/Jenova cells either went crazy or survived to be uber-tough to kill (Sephy, Hojo.) Another thing...what the hell is going on with the OTHER Cloud? (You know, the young Cloud who runs around when Cloud looses it...i.e. when he gives the Black Materia to Sephiroth.) Is this like separate personalities or something because I can see that if Jenova is controlling him...

06-01-2006, 05:27 AM	#11
Phoenix Flame Go Umbarbar do my bidding Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: By myself. It's lonely ;-; Posts: 3,044	Re: FFVII's Cloud Strife...man, or mako? Another question...is it ok to double post after a few months to get your question anwered? Cause I was really curious about that last one. :-)

06-01-2006, 05:28 AM	#12
Zeromus_X Master Summoner Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Core of the Moon (Phoenix, AZ) Age: 96 Posts: 2,931	Re: FFVII's Cloud Strife...man, or mako? Yes, go ahead. (Of course if it's been months. xD) Although to answer your question, I'm pretty sure that you're spot on. Of course, Cloud went into a catatonic state after the experiments, and that was when Zack was helping him around. (Until they got shot at...and you know the rest.) Then Tifa finds him, and then a week later the events of the game fold out, etc. It's probably just his childhood self or something? Well, that would be something up to interpretation. (Unless it wasn't translated well enough, or something.) Although it's probably just his concience. Last edited by Zeromus_X; 06-01-2006 at 05:31 AM.

06-01-2006, 08:08 AM	#13
murza Vivi's Minder Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 28	Re: FFVII's Cloud Strife...man, or mako? the way i see it is that when cloud found about the truth no-body had control of him, maybe the jenova cell got killed? lol i mean he was a failed experiment of hojo and before the northen crater he was living a lie and now he found out the truth maybe that changed everything but then if u ask me man or mako i would say both? his body is probaly made out of mako, but then his memories and personality is man? lol i think this makes sense

06-02-2006, 07:05 AM	#14
Phoenix Flame Go Umbarbar do my bidding Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: By myself. It's lonely ;-; Posts: 3,044	Re: FFVII's Cloud Strife...man, or mako? ^ hmmm... an interesting theory, but something doesn't add up to boot. What about Geostigma? If the Jenova cells were killed-off (or whatever) he wouldn't have it necessarily. So I guess that does away with that. He does say "I was showered by mako" but I remember him saying that before knowing the truth. I think we need Shadowheart's incredible mind in on this one... What do you say? Both Man, AND Mako, or one/other? Thinking about this actually gives me a headache. Failed experiment - yes. Weak personality put him in a catatonic state. I think I see a little clearer...

06-02-2006, 07:09 AM	#15
Zeromus_X Master Summoner Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Core of the Moon (Phoenix, AZ) Age: 96 Posts: 2,931	Re: FFVII's Cloud Strife...man, or mako? If you haven't seen the one-episode anime 'Before Crisis' (I believe it's called), you should, reason. It goes over the Nibelheim incident, albeit changing some minor details. I just thought it'd be informative. (You can probably find it on Google video or YouTube, no doubt.) I believe the order of events went like this (CIW): -Cloud applies for Soldier. Doesn't make the cut. Becomes ShinRa lacky. -Cloud gets mixed up in Nibelheim incident. Sephy scene. -Cloud gets captured by Hojo, becomes lab rat momentarily. -Escapes with Zack. Get shot at. Cloud escapes. Goes to Midgar, and meets with Tifa. -Game plays out. CIW, of course.

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