Nice Theory (MAJOR ENDING SPOILERS)

FFnut · 08-16-2005, 02:50 PM

Rinoa = Ultimecia?

I finally beat this Sunday night and I noticed something very odd about the FMVs. After you defeat Finalultimecia and Squall tries to find his way out of Time Compression, you're presented with several FMVs of Rinoa, all being warped as Squall tries to remember when and where he wants to go. You may notice that in a few shots Rinoa's eyes are yellow and she has a face sort of superimposed on top of hers (it's possible to make out the cheekbones and some of the hair), as if they're trying to tell us something. Later on Ultimecia's face flashes on the screen a few times as well - she has yellow eyes. So I began to think - why would Ultimecia's face be superimposed over Rinoa's?

Then I began the following train of thought. Only two people knew what Squall had named his ring, and thus what GF would come from that ring - Rinoa also has a copy of that ring. Squall also mentioned that he'd be Rinoa's knight. Ultimecia tells us when she gives her power to Edea that a sorceress cannot die without first giving up her powers. With these facts, I pieced together the following timeline.

Past - Ultimecia arrives from TC and gives powers to Edea, and dies.
Present - The game of FF8.
Time Compression (TC) - Squall and co. defeat Ultimecia (the end of FF8). Ultimecia goes to the Past and Squall returns to the Present (after a brief pit stop in the Past).
Present - Squall and Rinoa lead a happy life.
Future - Squall dies of natural causes. Rinoa cannot die because of her powers, and becomes Ultimecia.
TC - Ultimecia, formerly Rinoa, causes TC and fights Squall and co. for the reasons following. Ultimecia goes to the Past to get rid of her powers and die peacefully.

This begs the question "Why would Rinoa fight them in Time Compression?" Remember, Rinoa had her happy life with Squall after the battle with Ultimecia. In order to keep time flowing smoothly (and thus have her happy life in her past, and Rinoa's future) she had to fight. She remembered fighting Ultimecia was key in having a happy life, so as Ultimecia she would have to fight. After that fight (and her mission to keep her and Squall together) was over, she gave her powers away and died.

Discuss.

ShadowHeart · 08-16-2005, 03:10 PM

You actually thought about this yourself? Impressive

I've heard of this theory many times, but I didn't think of it myself. I first encountered it in the FFVIII plot analysis at GameFAQs (there's a plot analysis FAQ for each of the later FF titles basically, and maybe other games as well). It doesn't lay it out exactly the same as you do, but the basics is the same - that Rinoa is Ultimecia. They discuss it back and forth and provide evidence for the theory. You may want to check it out at (thought I'd be nice and give you the direct link):

db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/final_fantasy_viii_plot_analysis.txt

(just copy and paste it into your browser)

It's a good read, I recommend you read it at least once (if only for the Who Is Ultimecia? part).

I'm not sure personally whether I believe it or not, but I'm leaning more towards believing it than not. There really is a lot that indicates that it's true. But apparently there are things that contraditcs it. I can't remember now what exactly that is, but chances are it's in that plot analysis. I may have to read it again myself

ShadowHeart · 08-16-2005, 03:53 PM

EDIT: Please delete this post.

Squall85 · 08-17-2005, 02:04 AM

very interesting, I'd have to replay f8 to refresh my memory which i wouldn't mind doin : ) by the way good post

Spiff · 08-17-2005, 02:53 PM

Good theory, I never really noticed that. But couldn't she just give her powers to the person who would become Ultimeca? Your theory could be true but then that would be some good acting.

I think it would be more logical that she gave her powers to someone else and the powers eventually got into the hands of ultimeca.

EDIT: On the yellow eyes, those just might be the eyes that a sorcerer has.

Luis · 08-17-2005, 10:40 PM

To Shadowheart:
Thank you very much for the link!! I didn't know the theory about Squall's father...I never though Laguna could be...Just amazing!!
Thanks a lot!

Zerlina · 08-18-2005, 12:43 AM

I always just assumed Laguna was Squall's father.

ShadowHeart · 08-18-2005, 06:19 AM

It's not put out in the open in the game, it's just hinted at. Especially towards the end, when you can talk to Laguna, Kiros and Ward on the Ragnarok just before going to fight Ultimecia..

I never realized it the first time I played (I was told by a friend afterwards), and thinking about it now I must have been blind or something lol.

And, you're welcome, Luis

FFnut · 08-18-2005, 08:53 AM

It's in the cards.

Rinoa's dad has Rinoa's card. Zell's mom has Zell's card. Laguna has Squall's card.

Alright, I admit that it doesn't work for anyone else, but especially with those hints I found it significant that those three cards were probably held by their parents.

ShadowHeart · 08-18-2005, 09:04 AM

Heh, you're right about that, I never even made that connection

SquallLionheart · 08-19-2005, 06:59 PM

makes sense...

Raven · 08-20-2005, 06:42 AM

I never thought about that, good points.

gcarev10 · 11-09-2005, 05:23 PM

I never noticed that somethings are munga bunga (frick).

Squall Lionheart · 01-25-2006, 12:21 AM

It is just a probability that Laguna can be Squall's father....(Then where did he get Leonhart name since he was NEVER adopted...) but i agree on the probability...
As for Rinoa....Its obvious without (over-analysing) that she said clearly to Squall...her powers will be inherited by many sorceress's(Whom they FOUGHT before getting to Ultimicia's Castle) untill they get to Ultimicia...what you all don't understand is that the Sorcress manipulated time on the risk off her OWN EXCISTENS in the universe (PAST-PRERSENT-& FUTURE to be VERY clear) & to finish off the myth with a lionheart.....
meaning there is no more Sorcress Ultimicia at any time...she won't be even in the future to inherit Hyne's powers....
By the way....the card theory is way off....does this mean that Selphie's friend is her mother.....or Laguna's father is.....etc...
To the first poster I say:first mistake is that Hyne's powers excited long before ultimicia and edea both........to make it clearer history changed (Balamb idea) When Squall was misdirected in the past....Ultimicia gave Edea her powers to exicst no more....meaning that if Squall haven't met Matron...there would be no SeeD and Ultimicia would have had the time Compressed.....
If you doubt me ask....if you can't put it together then .....''Whatever...''

Squall Leonhart · 01-25-2006, 12:43 AM

This made me think a little.

Ellone=Squall's sis
Laguna= Squall's dad, but Ellone's uncle?

How does this work?

08-16-2005, 02:50 PM	#1
FFnut Master Thief Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The space between dimensions... kinda like where Gilgamesh ends up in FF5. Age: 34 Posts: 436	Nice Theory (MAJOR ENDING SPOILERS) Rinoa = Ultimecia? I finally beat this Sunday night and I noticed something very odd about the FMVs. After you defeat Finalultimecia and Squall tries to find his way out of Time Compression, you're presented with several FMVs of Rinoa, all being warped as Squall tries to remember when and where he wants to go. You may notice that in a few shots Rinoa's eyes are yellow and she has a face sort of superimposed on top of hers (it's possible to make out the cheekbones and some of the hair), as if they're trying to tell us something. Later on Ultimecia's face flashes on the screen a few times as well - she has yellow eyes. So I began to think - why would Ultimecia's face be superimposed over Rinoa's? Then I began the following train of thought. Only two people knew what Squall had named his ring, and thus what GF would come from that ring - Rinoa also has a copy of that ring. Squall also mentioned that he'd be Rinoa's knight. Ultimecia tells us when she gives her power to Edea that a sorceress cannot die without first giving up her powers. With these facts, I pieced together the following timeline. Past - Ultimecia arrives from TC and gives powers to Edea, and dies. Present - The game of FF8. Time Compression (TC) - Squall and co. defeat Ultimecia (the end of FF8). Ultimecia goes to the Past and Squall returns to the Present (after a brief pit stop in the Past). Present - Squall and Rinoa lead a happy life. Future - Squall dies of natural causes. Rinoa cannot die because of her powers, and becomes Ultimecia. TC - Ultimecia, formerly Rinoa, causes TC and fights Squall and co. for the reasons following. Ultimecia goes to the Past to get rid of her powers and die peacefully. This begs the question "Why would Rinoa fight them in Time Compression?" Remember, Rinoa had her happy life with Squall after the battle with Ultimecia. In order to keep time flowing smoothly (and thus have her happy life in her past, and Rinoa's future) she had to fight. She remembered fighting Ultimecia was key in having a happy life, so as Ultimecia she would have to fight. After that fight (and her mission to keep her and Squall together) was over, she gave her powers away and died. Discuss. __________________ I've been FFnut since before I'd even heard of FFnet, so don't accuse me of stealing anything. "Only an egotistical bastard would sig himself." ~ FFnut That is not dead which can eternal lie And with strange aeons even death may die. Commander Of The Platinum Dragons Official Ex-Member

08-16-2005, 03:10 PM	#2
ShadowHeart Master Summoner Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sweden Age: 41 Posts: 1,730	Re: Nice Theory (MAJOR ENDING SPOILERS) You actually thought about this yourself? Impressive I've heard of this theory many times, but I didn't think of it myself. I first encountered it in the FFVIII plot analysis at GameFAQs (there's a plot analysis FAQ for each of the later FF titles basically, and maybe other games as well). It doesn't lay it out exactly the same as you do, but the basics is the same - that Rinoa is Ultimecia. They discuss it back and forth and provide evidence for the theory. You may want to check it out at (thought I'd be nice and give you the direct link): db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/final_fantasy_viii_plot_analysis.txt (just copy and paste it into your browser) It's a good read, I recommend you read it at least once (if only for the Who Is Ultimecia? part). I'm not sure personally whether I believe it or not, but I'm leaning more towards believing it than not. There really is a lot that indicates that it's true. But apparently there are things that contraditcs it. I can't remember now what exactly that is, but chances are it's in that plot analysis. I may have to read it again myself __________________ And then there was silence Just a voice from the other world Like a leaf in any icy world Memories will fade Last edited by Shadowheart; 08-16-2005 at 03:51 PM.

08-16-2005, 03:53 PM	#3
ShadowHeart Master Summoner Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sweden Age: 41 Posts: 1,730	Re: Nice Theory (MAJOR ENDING SPOILERS) EDIT: Please delete this post. __________________ And then there was silence Just a voice from the other world Like a leaf in any icy world Memories will fade Last edited by Shadowheart; 08-16-2005 at 08:18 PM.

08-17-2005, 02:04 AM	#4
Squall85 Moogle Farmer Join Date: May 2005 Location: Midgar Age: 38 Posts: 143	Re: Nice Theory (MAJOR ENDING SPOILERS) very interesting, I'd have to replay f8 to refresh my memory which i wouldn't mind doin : ) by the way good post __________________

08-17-2005, 02:53 PM	#5
Spiff Kung-Fu Fighter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Detroit Age: 40 Posts: 1,026	Re: Nice Theory (MAJOR ENDING SPOILERS) Good theory, I never really noticed that. But couldn't she just give her powers to the person who would become Ultimeca? Your theory could be true but then that would be some good acting. I think it would be more logical that she gave her powers to someone else and the powers eventually got into the hands of ultimeca. EDIT: On the yellow eyes, those just might be the eyes that a sorcerer has. __________________ "You cannot escape the responsibility of tomorrow by evading it today. " Abraham Lincoln (1809 - 1865)

08-17-2005, 10:40 PM	#6
Luis ·· Fresón rebelde ·· Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,539	Re: Nice Theory (MAJOR ENDING SPOILERS) To Shadowheart: Thank you very much for the link!! I didn't know the theory about Squall's father...I never though Laguna could be...Just amazing!! Thanks a lot!

08-18-2005, 12:43 AM	#7
Zerlina Chocobo Jockey Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Canada Age: 35 Posts: 293	Re: Nice Theory (MAJOR ENDING SPOILERS) I always just assumed Laguna was Squall's father. __________________

08-18-2005, 06:19 AM	#8
ShadowHeart Master Summoner Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sweden Age: 41 Posts: 1,730	Re: Nice Theory (MAJOR ENDING SPOILERS) It's not put out in the open in the game, it's just hinted at. Especially towards the end, when you can talk to Laguna, Kiros and Ward on the Ragnarok just before going to fight Ultimecia.. I never realized it the first time I played (I was told by a friend afterwards), and thinking about it now I must have been blind or something lol. And, you're welcome, Luis __________________ And then there was silence Just a voice from the other world Like a leaf in any icy world Memories will fade

08-18-2005, 08:53 AM	#9
FFnut Master Thief Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The space between dimensions... kinda like where Gilgamesh ends up in FF5. Age: 34 Posts: 436	Re: Nice Theory (MAJOR ENDING SPOILERS) It's in the cards. Rinoa's dad has Rinoa's card. Zell's mom has Zell's card. Laguna has Squall's card. Alright, I admit that it doesn't work for anyone else, but especially with those hints I found it significant that those three cards were probably held by their parents. __________________ I've been FFnut since before I'd even heard of FFnet, so don't accuse me of stealing anything. "Only an egotistical bastard would sig himself." ~ FFnut That is not dead which can eternal lie And with strange aeons even death may die. Commander Of The Platinum Dragons Official Ex-Member

08-18-2005, 09:04 AM	#10
ShadowHeart Master Summoner Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sweden Age: 41 Posts: 1,730	Re: Nice Theory (MAJOR ENDING SPOILERS) Heh, you're right about that, I never even made that connection __________________ And then there was silence Just a voice from the other world Like a leaf in any icy world Memories will fade

08-19-2005, 06:59 PM	#11
SquallLionheart T-Rexuar Snack Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 10	Re: Nice Theory (MAJOR ENDING SPOILERS) makes sense...

08-20-2005, 06:42 AM	#12
Raven Vivi's Minder Join Date: May 2005 Location: North Carolina Age: 35 Posts: 42	Re: Nice Theory (MAJOR ENDING SPOILERS) I never thought about that, good points. __________________ Forum: CyberGhost 0 CyberGhost 0's Main Topics: Anime, gaming, and graphics.

11-09-2005, 05:23 PM	#13
gcarev10 Master Thief Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Where Dimension Interval Age: 48 Posts: 486	Re: Nice Theory (MAJOR ENDING SPOILERS) I never noticed that somethings are munga bunga (frick).

01-25-2006, 12:21 AM	#14
Squall Lionheart SeeD Gunblade Specialist Join Date: Jan 2006 Age: 36 Posts: 1,578	Re: Nice Theory (MAJOR ENDING SPOILERS) It is just a probability that Laguna can be Squall's father....(Then where did he get Leonhart name since he was NEVER adopted...) but i agree on the probability... As for Rinoa....Its obvious without (over-analysing) that she said clearly to Squall...her powers will be inherited by many sorceress's(Whom they FOUGHT before getting to Ultimicia's Castle) untill they get to Ultimicia...what you all don't understand is that the Sorcress manipulated time on the risk off her OWN EXCISTENS in the universe (PAST-PRERSENT-& FUTURE to be VERY clear) & to finish off the myth with a lionheart..... meaning there is no more Sorcress Ultimicia at any time...she won't be even in the future to inherit Hyne's powers.... By the way....the card theory is way off....does this mean that Selphie's friend is her mother.....or Laguna's father is.....etc... To the first poster I say:first mistake is that Hyne's powers excited long before ultimicia and edea both........to make it clearer history changed (Balamb idea) When Squall was misdirected in the past....Ultimicia gave Edea her powers to exicst no more....meaning that if Squall haven't met Matron...there would be no SeeD and Ultimicia would have had the time Compressed..... If you doubt me ask....if you can't put it together then .....''Whatever...'' __________________ I'll be waiting...for you...so... If you come here... You'll find me. I promise.

01-25-2006, 12:43 AM	#15
Squall Leonhart Balamb Headmaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Balamb Garden Age: 29 Posts: 743	Re: Nice Theory (MAJOR ENDING SPOILERS) This made me think a little. Ellone=Squall's sis Laguna= Squall's dad, but Ellone's uncle? How does this work? __________________ Help! A chocobo is chasing me!

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