evolution- yes/no

[Staircase]

I was wondering that too. Im still confused as to what happened before birth. I'd like to see some peoples ideas on that. Good question Spec!

 

[Unknown Kaze]

Hum... tell me one thing... Why aren't we born in Heaven?

Well like I said in my previous post, if I had all the answers, then I would be God wouldnt I? but since Im only human, I dont have the answer to that question. Again (and it boils down to belief - again) I believe that we ARE born in Heaven, but in Spirit, and are then born here in body.

As to your next question,

Are we in this life just to suffer? (I just want your oppinion, to discuss the subject in a good way, don't get me wrong )

No, we are not in this life, to suffer. It is because of the free-will of man-kind. God didnt make suffering, man did.

 

[Spec Highwind]

Well like I said in my previous post, if I had all the answers, then I would be God wouldnt I? but since Im only human, I dont have the answer to that question. Again (and it boils down to belief - again) I believe that we ARE born in Heaven, but in Spirit, and are then born here in body.

As to your next question,



No, we are not in this life, to suffer. It is because of the free-will of man-kind. God didnt make suffering, man did.

Well... if he's omniscient, he knew what would happen! Is he using us as his puppets?

 

[Unknown Kaze]

Why would you ask if He is using us as puppets? Of course He knew it would happen, but He also knows that we (as humans) wouldnt be humans if we didnt have free will - we WOULD be puppets so He allowed us to make suffering.

 

[Spec Highwind]

Why would you ask if He is using us as puppets? Of course He knew it would happen, but He also knows that we (as humans) wouldnt be humans if we didnt have free will - we WOULD be puppets so He allowed us to make suffering.

But then... If we are in Paradise, we die, were do we go to?

btw... in the last years, a rattlesnake from... hum... don't remember, but it was in America, evolved to a different Specie. Is that enough to you to believe that evolution does exist? (I'm not saying that both god and evolution can't exist at the same time, I just don't believe in him)

 

[Avathar]

When it comes to evolutionism, it's not a matter of believing in it. It's based on actual facts.

The Christian God is based on what? Stories.

Facts and faith are two different things. Don't get them mixed up.

 

[Unknown Kaze]

To Avathar: Read my post on the first page please. My opinion is that still believing in a fact with so many flaws is like believeing that a bucket with many holes can still retain water.

To Spec: It couldnt have just evolved just like that. One of the fundamentals of the theory of evolution is that a species evolves over a period of time based on a gradual yet distintive change on its phenotype and genotype - and it would take millions of years for that to happen so the rattlesnake species cant just change its genes in anything less than a million years. Also I dont think that America has changed that much in a number of years....

 

[Avathar]

To Avathar: Read my post on the first page please. My opinion is that still believing in a fact with so many flaws is like believeing that a bucket with many holes can still retain water.

Of course it holds flaws. As good as each widely used theory isn't imagineable without its flaws.

But then again, look at communism: the theory works perfectly.
Kinda compareable to evolutionism: some parts of the ideas actually work, and hold on to facts. But people hold on more to the flaws, 'cause they cause greater effect on society.

And for evolutionism: it causes flaws, due to the conflict with religion.

The power of faith is strong, without a doubt, but for me, actual facts are for more prefereable.

Although this turns more into a religious discussion, it's quite inevetable.
Evolution can be prooven (even though it has flaws), so, holding a believe into that theory is stronger than a believe in something that is based on so called experiences.

 

[Unknown Kaze]

Of course it holds flaws. As good as each widely used theory isn't imagineable without its flaws.

The bible doesnt have flaws.... seriously, research on it, I did, and still am.

 

[ThroneofDravaris]

Not quite

 

[Xartex]

To Spec: It couldnt have just evolved just like that. One of the fundamentals of the theory of evolution is that a species evolves over a period of time based on a gradual yet distintive change on its phenotype and genotype - and it would take millions of years for that to happen so the rattlesnake species cant just change its genes in anything less than a million years. Also I dont think that America has changed that much in a number of years....

It doesn't have to take a million years, it is takes a long time for a species to evolve but if the conditions are right, it can take less than 100 000 years, wich is still a long time.

You are right about that it is unlikely that it evolved like that, but think about it, you say that america hasn't changed much in number of years. But for 1000 years ago there were only indians living there and no things such as pollution, and you also don't really know how the climate was back then maybe it was a hotter climate. A lot has changed in just in the last century, we've got a explotion in the amount of humans living in the world and we expand inte new areas all the time. So you can't really say that America hasn't changed.

 

[Unknown Kaze]

Not quite

Some of the scriptures he wrote that he says contradict with each other just..... dont

>>
<<

And as to the others (espically the Good God, or just to a few part), if he had read the previous chapters, he would know WHY God did what He did.

 

[ultimecia]

i believe that evolution is true and i think in so many years we wont need our bodys so everyone will just be floating brains which would be really funny and the people with the smallest brains were cool and people with the biggest brains are obviously clever and all girls went with people who had the biggest brain i cant exactly imagine it happening but its a interesting thing to think about if you like that kind of thing.

 

[Staircase]

The bible doesnt have flaws.... seriously, research on it, I did, and still am.

I think there are alot of things in the bible that are false. But i still believe in god.

Noahs ark : one man cant hold 2 of every animal in a boat in a town that flooded for 40 days, however from his point of view...

He could have taken 2 cats, and 2 dogs, and to him it may have been every animal he has seen, dogs and cats. Then used a raft to stay afloat on 40 very rainy days, that flooded about 2 feet.

Moses parting the red sea : Even if an ocean had no water in it, seas arnt flat. It would be next to impossible to walk on the bottom of a sea. But, it could have been a very dry day and they crossed a very shallow part of it.

I think alot of the bible was just misinterpritations, but i still believe there is a higer force than man.

 

[Avathar]

Oh, I do believe in God, but not the Christian version of God.

And even if the bible is filled with misinterpretations, I respect it, since it's all about human experiences, which can't really be explained, only interpreted.

The Old Testament is good literature, though!

 

[Staircase]

Oh, I do believe in God, but not the Christian version of God.

And even if the bible is filled with misinterpretations, I respect it, since it's all about human experiences, which can't really be explained, only interpreted.

The Old Testament is good literature, though!

My exact thoughts 100%, except i haven't read the old testament, so i don't know about that.

 

[Phoenix Flame]

When it comes to evolutionism, it's not a matter of believing in it. It's based on actual facts.

The Christian God is based on what? Stories.

Facts and faith are two different things. Don't get them mixed up.

I'd like to take a stab at aswering this also.

Evolution is also based on faith. Have you ever (personally) seen a change in the physical form of a species? Where you there when the spark of life (and where did that spark come from anyway?) made a single-celled lifeform out of muck?

No, evolutionism is also based on faith. Either you put your faith in God and stop trying to do things your way. Or you put your faith in science - and we've all seen how great destruction that power can wield. Or you put your faith in nothing...which, by the way, is still belief in something.

 

[Avathar]

Well, yes, ultimately each religion, and also each science is based on a belief, I'm not ignoring that factor! Now, I'm not a scientologist or anything, but the thing is:

Theories such as evolutionism are far more appealing, due to logistics. Logistics that make sense towards our world, the human way of thinking and living.
Men could say that everything is made up. Which, when you look at philosophy: theories work out, especially in science, they work out for humans 'cause they make perfect sense, and work out for human life.

We all agree on Einstein's formula's, but when you look back to the first scientific theories: They were made up, but with perfect logistics!

(And for the record: I believe in natural forces, God as a cosmic force, not the Christian version, portrayed as a person.)

But just to say, something like evolutionism is certainly partially based on a faith, on the belief that it works. Faith in something that doesn't work, but just causes a kind of spiritual comfort (such as Christianity), that's not really for my way of living the life; although it's definetly fullfilling thinking about it.

 

[Phoenix Flame]

Well, yes, ultimately each religion, and also each science is based on a belief, I'm not ignoring that factor! Now, I'm not a scientologist or anything, but the thing is:

Theories such as evolutionism are far more appealing, due to logistics. Logistics that make sense towards our world, the human way of thinking and living.
Men could say that everything is made up. Which, when you look at philosophy: theories work out, especially in science, they work out for humans 'cause they make perfect sense, and work out for human life.

We all agree on Einstein's formula's, but when you look back to the first scientific theories: They were made up, but with perfect logistics!

(And for the record: I believe in natural forces, God as a cosmic force, not the Christian version, portrayed as a person.)

But just to say, something like evolutionism is certainly partially based on a faith, on the belief that it works. Faith in something that doesn't work, but just causes a kind of spiritual comfort (such as Christianity), that's not really for my way of living the life; although it's definetly fullfilling thinking about it.

Laws are in-your-face and make sense...theories are man's best guess based on the evidence at hand. I haven't seen much evidence in the fossil record (not that I've studied every fossil) that evolutionism is true or false. Broken down, your statement basically says...

Man's best guess works for me because it meshes well with how I reason, how I think. Man's way of thinking, how he holds it and how it affects us, (philosophy) when you look at our best guesses, makes sense.

<Errrrr...meh? Isn't that circular reasoning?>

Please understand, my intention is not to poke/make fun of you - I respect you!

Just trying to get you to think about what you think about. I know that for the longest time I denied the truth because I simply didn't was to deal with it. Didn't want to acknowledge that I was trying to do things my way and that it wasn't working. This world isn't about order and 'evolving' into something better. Science has actually made what evil that was in the world worse.
Science has done a LOT of good also. But it's not the scalpel - it's who's holding it that makes the difference.

Science circumcised me.
God circumcised my heart.

 

[Avathar]

Science has actually made what evil that was in the world worse.
Science has done a LOT of good also. But it's not the scalpel - it's who's holding it that makes the difference.

Science circumcised me.
God circumcised my heart.

But you'd have to admit: Imagine: Today the day, a world without scientific reasonings, and only religious standards: it wouldn't work at all for the people of today.

That might have worked out, like, 700 years ago, but think of it this way:

Which holds more possible threats: religious beliefs, or scientific facts (even though you'd come to the conclusion that these facts aren't really facts). From what I know, religious beliefs have caused the most wars throughout history, well, maybe not caused it, but they were surely a big encouragement! (From the crusades to the First World War (where both France and Germany were Christian nations, but both considered themselves far better Christians than the other.), and of course, the many examples of Jihad, with the amounts of martyrs.)

Now, I'm not saying religion is a bad thing for one person, definetly not. But the way I see it: any belief (may it vary from Orthodox Christianity to Agnosticism) is surely for the benefit for one person's personal development.

I'm not even sure what the name would be of my "religion", but that determination doesn't even matter, as long as I can feel an experience, which I find partially fulfilling, with the fact that thinking about it is definetly something positive.

But I still stand tall to the evolution theory. It's a mere theory, but for most people in today's society, it actually works out, even though many of these people 'd be devoted Christians, as long as they find it fulfilling to their lives that they live.